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Subject: Ships in lost port rss

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Doug Kewley
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I am sure there it must be in the rule book, but my friend and I could not find it. What happens to ships in port when there is a land battle that takes the port and the attacker controls the lake? Do they sail out and fight the attacker's fleet or are they lost?
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Andrew MacLeod
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dakjck wrote:
I am sure there it must be in the rule book, but my friend and I could not find it. What happens to ships in port when there is a land battle that takes the port and the attacker controls the lake? Do they sail out and fight the attacker's fleet or are they lost?


They sail out and fight the attacker's fleet.
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Paul Borchers
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And if it's a winter turn, they're scuttled at the port and lost to both sides.
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Kevin McPartland
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Yup, that's right. And don't forget that when they do sail out to fight, if they have another Port or Harbor to retreat to, they may immediately choose to retreat there. So essentially, they can slip out of the captured Port (or Harbor) and sail to another. (This obviously can't happen on Lake Champlain, where each side has only one Port.)

Kevin
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Andrew MacLeod
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KMcPartland wrote:
Yup, that's right. And don't forget that when they do sail out to fight, if they have another Port or Harbor to retreat to, they may immediately choose to retreat there. So essentially, they can slip out of the captured Port (or Harbor) and sail to another. (This obviously can't happen on Lake Champlain, where each side has only one Port.)

Kevin


I'm afraid I had forgotten that! Thanks, Kevin!
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Kevin McPartland
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We had a difficult time figuring this one out- there is no example to go by from the war. The only Port occupied by the enemy was Amhurstburg occupied by the Americans- but not until the British Lake Erie fleet was completely captured by Perry. ("We have met the enemy, and they are ours!") There is no example of a lake fleet chased out of port by a land army.

But forcing a lake combat after the capture of a port would entail a great deal of coordination between the land army and the lake fleet. Since the examples of close cooperation during the War of 1812 are few and far between (note our unusual use for Major Campaign cards) we decided that this was the less likely outcome. So in the game, your fleet can slip out of a captured port and anchor at another.

Kevin
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Tom
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KMcPartland wrote:
We had a difficult time figuring this one out- there is no example to go by from the war. The only Port occupied by the enemy was Amhurstburg occupied by the Americans- but not until the British Lake Erie fleet was completely captured by Perry. ("We have met the enemy, and they are ours!") There is no example of a lake fleet chased out of port by a land army.

But forcing a lake combat after the capture of a port would entail a great deal of coordination between the land army and the lake fleet. Since the examples of close cooperation during the War of 1812 are few and far between (note our unusual use for Major Campaign cards) we decided that this was the less likely outcome. So in the game, your fleet can slip out of a captured port and anchor at another.

Kevin


Kevin,

I am looking at the last paragraph of Section 5.6, pg 6:

Quote:
If an enemy land Expedition takes Control of the Area your Port is in...All completed Ships MUST(my emphasis) immediately move to another Port or Harbor in a Controlled Area on the same Lake. If all are enemy Controlled the Ships must form an Expedition on the Lake...


I interpret by this that you can NOT form an expedition on the lake unless you have no port or harbour to skulk away to. There is no clarification in the FAQ's contrary to this.

Is this the intent?

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Andrew MacLeod
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TomAquin wrote:



Kevin,

I am looking at the last paragraph of Section 5.6, pg 6:

Quote:
If an enemy land Expedition takes Control of the Area your Port is in...All completed Ships MUST(my emphasis) immediately move to another Port or Harbor in a Controlled Area on the same Lake. If all are enemy Controlled the Ships must form an Expedition on the Lake...


I interpret by this that you can NOT form an expedition on the lake unless you have no port or harbour to skulk away to. There is no clarification in the FAQ's contrary to this.

Is this the intent?



I would assume so, Tom, and I'm sorry I missed that in Saturday's game: Perry could have ignominiously escaped to Put-in-Bay rather than be ignominiously captured by your far-less-incompetent-than-I-thought Lake Erie fleet. Regardless, with the loss of Presque-Ile my plans for Lake Erie pretty much evaporated!
 
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Tom
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Quote:


I would assume so, Tom, I missed that in Saturday's game: Perry could have ignominiously escaped to Put-in-Bay rather than be ignominiously captured by your far-less-incompetent-than-I-thought Lake Erie fleet. Regardless, with the loss of Presque-Ile my plans for Lake Erie pretty much evaporated!


In reading the rules yesterday, this was the only serious error we made. (If it is an error; posts above suggest not). I also saw we failed to reduce troop loses when a fort was present in a battle, but indeed the ill-fated charge of Perry resulted in the turning point of the game and lead to the immortal quote: "We met the enemy blokes and, by George, they are ours! Tea time, chaps!" One can only wonder how Perry might have messed up that heroic quote if the Americans had won the battle.

Anyway, challenge to a rematch issued, Andrew. Let me know.
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Andrew MacLeod
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TomAquin wrote:

In reading the rules yesterday, this was the only serious error we made. (If it is an error; posts above suggest not). I also saw we failed to reduce troop loses when a fort was present in a battle...


Re-match ASAP, I hope.

I can't remember any battles involving forts, other than my attack on York, and your attack on a defenceless Michillimackinac. Were there more, Tom?
 
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Tom
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York was attacked. I cannot recall the details.
 
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