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Subject: Strategy question for the veterans on Inspiration points on the map rss

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Tom W -
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I am hoping a veteran of this game can give me their opinion on this:

Last game I got a solar sail and just sent it unmanned orbiting over and over around mercury. I could usually get it to hit at least 3-4 inspiration points a round, which let me just cycle through a particular deck until I got exactly what I was looking for (like the refinery that requires no supports, or the "C" laser robonaught that all it requires is a radiator to run. I managed to snag the other solar sail and boost it, in order to deny it to others. This gave me a massive advantage over all the other players, as I rapidly had perfectly tuned rockets while everyone was struggling to get one that simply worked.

Is this legit? Are there any limitations on this strategy (like max 1 card flip per component type?) In the next game I imagine the bids for the solar sails is going to escalate rapidly. But even then, two players will be doing this and the rest will be out of luck.
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Javier
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Phil change the inspiration rule in the last A&C rules. Now the max inspiration is 2 regardless the number of inspirations you make in your move.

I think is more elegant ;)
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Drake Immortalis
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It was legit until about a week ago. Now max 2 inspirations per turn.
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Erich Schneider
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I always interpreted the inspiration rule to mean that one could get multiple inspirations per turn, but that a particular deck could only have one card cycled. The rules in the box say:

Quote:
B. INSPIRATION. Immediately after moving your Rocket or Bernal Stack, you may without cost perform an exotropy (14.3B) on one deck for each triangle burn (2.2A) that it crossed in its move. Choose any patent deck (including the colonists) for the exotropy.


I interpreted "one deck for each triangle burn" to mean that going through n burns meant you could do exotropy to n decks, not that you had n single-deck exotropy actions to distribute as you wished. That's how we have been playing it in my local group and it seems to work fine. (Frankly, I was surprised when Phil made a statement that indicated his original intent was otherwise.)
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Tom W -
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thank goodness there has been some ruling. I found the infinite circular orbit you can do with the upgraded mag solar sail around mercury for infinite inspirations.

Erich's system would also solve the problem elegantly, but I suppose I should go with the max 2 inspirations from the A+C rules for consistency.

SO by the A+C rules I can take both inspirations on the same deck?

Tom
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Jeff Chamberlain
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Tom W wrote:
thank goodness there has been some ruling. I found the infinite circular orbit you can do with the upgraded mag solar sail around mercury for infinite inspirations.


That isn't possible... the rules don't allow you to get a +1 thrust from the same spot on the map more than once in the same move. So even before this change, infinite inspiration was never possible.
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Kyrill Melai
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Klintus Fang wrote:
... the rules don't allow you to get a +1 thrust from the same spot on the map more than once in the same move. ...


I have overlooked that rule. Can you help and point out where it is in the rulebook?
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Jeff Chamberlain
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NoDDs wrote:
Klintus Fang wrote:
... the rules don't allow you to get a +1 thrust from the same spot on the map more than once in the same move. ...


I have overlooked that rule. Can you help and point out where it is in the rulebook?


Sadly, I am not sure where it is in the current rules. But it certainly should be. Phil added that rule when our group noticed that you could get infinite loop with that thruster in the legacy advanced game back when the game was first printed in 2010...

I hope the rule hasn't since been lost, cause you can't just get infinite inspirations without it, you can get infinite acceleration and hence fly all the way to Sedna orbit (or to any other location on the map that you desire) in one turn.
 
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Francisco Colmenares
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Yeah if you could do that, inspiration would be the least of the designer's problems. I recommend searching in the A&C rules for the Mag Sail some where.
 
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Erich Schneider
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It's in the Alive & Complete glossary under "Sails":

Quote:
Sail Bonuses. Sail cards are immune to damage from radiation hazards and solar flares. The Mag Sail receives a +1 thrust bonus for each radiation hazard it enters in a move. However, each radiation hazard can boost a sail only once per turn, in the case where a sail circles and re-enters the same point.


(Let's hear it for important rules in the glossary!)

In the most recent living rules for the original rulebook, there is a similar addition to rule section 8.3.C "Sail Bonuses".
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Calavera Despierta
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erich_schneider wrote:
It's in the Alive & Complete glossary under "Sails":

Quote:
Sail Bonuses. Sail cards are immune to damage from radiation hazards and solar flares. The Mag Sail receives a +1 thrust bonus for each radiation hazard it enters in a move. However, each radiation hazard can boost a sail only once per turn, in the case where a sail circles and re-enters the same point.


(Let's hear it for important rules in the glossary!)

In the most recent living rules for the original rulebook, there is a similar addition to rule section 8.3.C "Sail Bonuses".


IIRC that clarification exists because in early playtests there were some hilarious shenanigans possible in the Mercury/Venus zones that involved circling in loops to gather infinite bonus thrust. Not only did Phil add that rule, but I believe he made some minor map changes to the map to prevent such wackiness from continuing to occur.

Still, a Jupiter fly-by with that Mag-Sail is pretty phenomenal!
 
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Mike Dommett
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I thought that the slingshots could be used more than once. About the only time it would make sense to use this would be in the mag sail wind up, but still. I cannot see any reason why not.

"Sir, we are heading towards Mercury again. Calculating approach to slingshot us though an angle of 120 degrees and gain another 2.5km/s."
"Good work, ensign"
"Sir, something is not quite right..."
"What is it?"
"Our course and speed are not changing as anticipated..."
"Hmmm..."
"Sir, sensors indicate that the Mercurial gravity has disappeared!"
"My g... Er, ensign, what is the date"?
"Sir?"
"The date."
"2nd August 2034"
"And when exactly did we last pass Mercury?"
"28th February 2034"
"2034. 2034. What are they teaching in astronaut school these days? We have already used up the gravity for this year, you fool..."
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Jeff Chamberlain
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Hopkins wrote:
I thought that the slingshots could be used more than once. About the only time it would make sense to use this would be in the mag sail wind up, but still. I cannot see any reason why not.

"Sir, we are heading towards Mercury again. Calculating approach to slingshot us though an angle of 120 degrees and gain another 2.5km/s."
"Good work, ensign"
"Sir, something is not quite right..."
"What is it?"
"Our course and speed are not changing as anticipated..."
"Hmmm..."
"Sir, sensors indicate that the Mercurial gravity has disappeared!"
"My g... Er, ensign, what is the date"?
"Sir?"
"The date."
"2nd August 2034"
"And when exactly did we last pass Mercury?"
"28th February 2034"
"2034. 2034. What are they teaching in astronaut school these days? We have already used up the gravity for this year, you fool..."


The reason why not is because if you allow it, the mag sail can run around in circles an infinite number of times around the sun, build up infinite accelearation, and then fly any card to any location on the map in one turn with no fuel.
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Francisco Colmenares
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I think he means from a physics point of view for which I'm sure there's a decent explanation. Something along the lines of, You can't use a gravity well to escape from the same gravity well.
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Mike Dommett
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Klintus Fang wrote:
The reason why not is because if you allow it, the mag sail can run around in circles an infinite number of times around the sun, build up infinite accelearation, and then fly any card to any location on the map in one turn with no fuel.


I'm just talking about the slingshots - not the radiation belt boosts. I actually have a problem believing that the mag sail is physically possible at all, so limiting it to only one boost per rad symbol per turn doesn't cause me too much grief. Disappearing gravity, on the other hand, does!
 
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Erich Schneider
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In fact, there is nothing in the rules preventing use of a non-rad-belt slingshot/moon boost more than once per turn. I believe the geometry of the map is set up so that you can't gain anything from this, though. (The one exception might be the regular inner solar system map, where it might be possible to use the PRC promoted Bernal ability plus the Earth flyby bonus to gain an unreasonable number of boosts. Phil broke some Hohmann connections near Earth on the most recent poster map, possibly for this reason.)
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Mike Dommett
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erich_schneider wrote:
In fact, there is nothing in the rules preventing use of a non-rad-belt slingshot/moon boost more than once per turn. I believe the geometry of the map is set up so that you can't gain anything from this, though. (The one exception might be the regular inner solar system map, where it might be possible to use the PRC promoted Bernal ability plus the Earth flyby bonus to gain an unreasonable number of boosts. Phil broke some Hohmann connections near Earth on the most recent poster map, possibly for this reason.)

Excellent, thanks for the clarification. I had a quick search in the rules too and could also not find this limitation.
 
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