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Subject: Shipping news! rss

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Stephen G Roy
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Email rec'd:


Time for an update on completion & shipping!

The huge number of stretch goals funded by y’all made a lot more work for our sculptors at Fenris. We ended up with 59 separate sculpts! Nonetheless, Fenris is finished, and we have finally delivered the master sculpts to the factory. Yay!

We have approved the samples they sent back for the base game, and the factory is now working on the rest of the sculpts. Well, maybe they are not working on it right this minute, because it is Chinese New Year, which continues for a week or two, and I am told that little gets done during this period. But I have no doubt they will soon be back on track.

In brief, here is our logistics plan – the factories (in China) are going to deliver everything to a distribution center (also in China). There, the individual orders shall be collated. These are to be packaged into containers, then sent to regional warehouses for dissemination to local carriers, who happily deliver the product to your door. We have received nothing but good news with regard to diminishing the VAT issues in Europe. Right now, we are told by the factory that the game will be released to the distribution center in early April. It should be less than 30 days from then for final delivery.

Your grateful friend,

Sandy Petersen

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Sid Rain
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Created a countdown timer with a (hopefully) conservative estimate of May 31st as the countdown date (when people can expect to receive it, though it may be closer to the beginning of the month). Results, of course, will vary:

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20140531T00&p0=7...
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Mike Beiter
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paddirn wrote:
Created a countdown timer with a (hopefully) conservative estimate of May 31st as the countdown date. Results, of course, will vary:

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20140531T00&p0=7...


Fun!

I will add this to the list of web sites that I choose to check daily.
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Greg Robertson
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I've said it before and I will say it again... Release dates are always tentative. They change based on numerous factors. We will get our amazing game folks... AND... It will be even MORE refined due to the additional play testing sessions.

So count your blessings and lets keep the forums buzzing.

Cthulhu Wars! Game responsibly.
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Geoff S
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And I wish them luck with both packaging design and the quality control process. Any additional time spent in these areas is also time well spent imo.

Still, great news that it's moving forward.
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Björn Fink
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"We have received nothing but good news with regard to diminishing the VAT issues in Europe."

Uhm...what means diminishing? is the game shipped within the EU for EU backers or not????
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Jack Swan
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And that, my Hamlet, is the question ;-)
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Sandy Petersen
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I don't know how to say it more clearly than I did. The game is shipped from China to regional warehouses around the world, from which it makes its way to your home.
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Björn Fink
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Hi Sandy, i think the missunderstanding for us eu backers is the word diminishing...when the game is shipped within the eu there is no VAT at all...so all the people from EU are worried about this because diminishing means "lower VAT" costs...what means there are costs for us...so to make it clear:

Shipping within EU for EU backers = NO VAT at all
Shipping outside the EU to the EU = VAT

a "lower" VAT isnt possible.
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Jack Swan
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Sandy Petersen wrote:
I don't know how to say it more clearly than I did. The game is shipped from China to regional warehouses around the world, from which it makes its way to your home.

I think the "diminishing VAT" quote diminished the clarity of the "regional warehouses" part.

Maybe the clearest way to solve this is the simple repetition of what EU backers thought since Update 61: "All shipments to EU backers will be sent from within the EU." That would 'diminish' VAT to zero and might resolve all doubts.
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Con
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It is of course the case that there will be VAT issues in Europe even with shipping from within the EU. Backers in Switzerland will still get hit for VAT. GEG itself will presumably get hit for VAT when importing the goods into the EU. It would be good if Sandy could confirm that it is VAT issues of no direct concern to most backers, such as these, that are diminishing.

Hoping not to discover that the promised distribution of backer rewards from within the EU is from a bonded warehouse.
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Jack Swan
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ConG wrote:
Hoping not to discover that the promised distribution of backer rewards from within the EU is from a bonded warehouse.

What is a bonded warehouse?
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Con
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Unplugged wrote:
ConG wrote:
Hoping not to discover that the promised distribution of backer rewards from within the EU is from a bonded warehouse.

What is a bonded warehouse?


A bonded warehouse is one in which goods are stored without taxes and duties being paid. I'm no expert on this, but I suspect that rewards shipped from an EU bonded warehouse would be liable for VAT on delivery as if they had been shipped from outside the EU.
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Arturo Cavari
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Quote:
Backers in Switzerland will still get hit for VAT.


And that's their fault for being so darn neutral.
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Jack Swan
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ConG wrote:
Unplugged wrote:
ConG wrote:
Hoping not to discover that the promised distribution of backer rewards from within the EU is from a bonded warehouse.

What is a bonded warehouse?


A bonded warehouse is one in which goods are stored without taxes and duties being paid. I'm no expert on this, but I suspect that rewards shipped from an EU bonded warehouse would be liable for VAT on delivery as if they had been shipped from outside the EU.

Thanks. All the more reason for some more details about EU shipping from GEG. I do not want a postman at my door requiring well over €100.
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Greg Robertson
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Unplugged wrote:
ConG wrote:
Unplugged wrote:
ConG wrote:
Hoping not to discover that the promised distribution of backer rewards from within the EU is from a bonded warehouse.

What is a bonded warehouse?


A bonded warehouse is one in which goods are stored without taxes and duties being paid. I'm no expert on this, but I suspect that rewards shipped from an EU bonded warehouse would be liable for VAT on delivery as if they had been shipped from outside the EU.

Thanks. All the more reason for some more details about EU shipping from GEG. I do not want a postman at my door requiring well over €100.


Disclaimer: I am not a spokes person for Green Eye Games. So anything I say here may or may not be accurate to the current situation. Just warning you up front.

Let's be sensible about this guys... No company wants to see its customers pay more for S/H than is absolutely necessary. Why? Because this detracts from future purchases. Savvy online shoppers are now factoring in S/H costs into their purchases to save anywhere from $5 to $100 in added cost.

VAT can be a pain in the arse for companies outside of the UK. They have to factor in the value of the items, how much you paid for them, and the shipping costs. Then you are taxed based upon the aforementioned declarations.

Give Green Eye Games some credit before you make gross assumptions about their business model and practices. These are great people working tirelessly to get you the items you've paid for at a great price.

To sum all of this up... Have a little faith in these guys. And above all... BE PATIENT!

Cthulhu Wars! Game responsibly.
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Björn Fink
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RobertGhent wrote:
Unplugged wrote:
ConG wrote:
Unplugged wrote:
ConG wrote:
Hoping not to discover that the promised distribution of backer rewards from within the EU is from a bonded warehouse.

What is a bonded warehouse?


A bonded warehouse is one in which goods are stored without taxes and duties being paid. I'm no expert on this, but I suspect that rewards shipped from an EU bonded warehouse would be liable for VAT on delivery as if they had been shipped from outside the EU.

Thanks. All the more reason for some more details about EU shipping from GEG. I do not want a postman at my door requiring well over €100.


Disclaimer: I am not a spokes person for Green Eye Games. So anything I say here may or may not be accurate to the current situation. Just warning you up front.

Let's be sensible about this guys... No company wants to see its customers pay more for S/H than is absolutely necessary. Why? Because this detracts from future purchases. Savvy online shoppers are now factoring in S/H costs into their purchases to save anywhere from $5 to $100 in added cost.

VAT can be a pain in the arse for companies outside of the UK. They have to factor in the value of the items, how much you paid for them, and the shipping costs. Then you are taxed based upon the aforementioned declarations.

Give Green Eye Games some credit before you make gross assumptions about their business model and practices. These are great people working tirelessly to get you the items you've paid for at a great price.

To sum all of this up... Have a little faith in these guys. And above all... BE PATIENT!

Cthulhu Wars! Game responsibly.


Well iam patient...and i believe in a earlyer update on KS that says everything will be shipped from inside the EU to the customers, if this is still true then we have no problem at all...what i dont understand and what concerns me a lot...when this is still the truth...why just not a short update on KS that says "The Game will be shipped to the EU customers from inside the EU with no extra VAT costs for the customers"...it is as simple as that. I pledged 170 Dollars for a Boardgame (cultist)...thats a hell of a lot of money for me and the only reason i did this was because of the fact that there are no extra costs involved.
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Jack Swan
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RobertGhent wrote:
Give Green Eye Games some credit before you make gross assumptions about their business model and practices. These are great people working tirelessly to get you the items you've paid for at a great price.

To sum all of this up... Have a little faith in these guys. And above all... BE PATIENT!

I don't think anyone is (or was) making gross assumptions, other than what was implied in Update 61: 'shipment from within the EU, so no VAT'.
The VAT quote in Update 122 seems to be in slight contradiction with that message, and has some backers (like me) worried about high costs.
All we need is a simple statement from GEG whether VAT-free EU shipment is still the case, or not.
Then we can game responsibly.
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Arthur Petersen
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I just got off the phone with Cody, man of amazingness at GEG, and number one fan of the film The Room. I wanted to ask about this thread so I could respond accurately.

First of all, GEG is NOT 100% sure what it will be.

The word "diminished" was chosen because the cost will DEFINITELY be MUCH less than if purchased through retail (Cody specifically authorized me to emphasize the word "much" ) Apparently, the VAT can be in between the normal full amount you would expect and 0 because it depends on if it is calculated based on the total price, or on the manufacturer's cost, or some other cost, etc.

Here are the actual words of Cody:

"Based on the legal work performed by our logistics partner the VAT may be reduced all the way to 0. Our logistics partner has spent countless hours and tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees to help reduce or eliminate the VAT issue specifically for crowdfunding backers. They are doing this work for numerous kickstarter projects (not just GEG), and we are anticipating an official statement from them on the details. As soon as we have them, we will pass it along."

Cody believes that the VAT will be 0 because of all of this work done by the company handling the logistics. However, because the EU always seems (at least to me) like one vast bureaucratic and legal quagmire, we cannot be sure until the official statements from the people actually hammering out the details.

We REALLY REALLY REALLY want it to be 0, obviously, just like all of you who live in the EU.





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Greg Robertson
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Thank you for the statement Arthur. I had heard something from Cody while I was visiting but could not make a statement based on it.

I hope this helps to put your minds at ease guys.

Cthulhu Wars! Game responsibly.
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Björn Fink
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existoid wrote:
I just got off the phone with Cody, man of amazingness at GEG, and number one fan of the film The Room. I wanted to ask about this thread so I could respond accurately.

First of all, GEG is NOT 100% sure what it will be.

The word "diminished" was chosen because the cost will DEFINITELY be MUCH less than if purchased through retail (Cody specifically authorized me to emphasize the word "much" ) Apparently, the VAT can be in between the normal full amount you would expect and 0 because it depends on if it is calculated based on the total price, or on the manufacturer's cost, or some other cost, etc.

Here are the actual words of Cody:

"Based on the legal work performed by our logistics partner the VAT may be reduced all the way to 0. Our logistics partner has spent countless hours and tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees to help reduce or eliminate the VAT issue specifically for crowdfunding backers. They are doing this work for numerous kickstarter projects (not just GEG), and we are anticipating an official statement from them on the details. As soon as we have them, we will pass it along."

Cody believes that the VAT will be 0 because of all of this work done by the company handling the logistics. However, because the EU always seems (at least to me) like one vast bureaucratic and legal quagmire, we cannot be sure until the official statements from the people actually hammering out the details.

We REALLY REALLY REALLY want it to be 0, obviously, just like all of you who live in the EU.







Okey let me get this straight, because i think there is a lot of confusion. The Customer itself in the EU is only paying VAT when the game is delivered directly to the customer from outside the EU. I don't care about VAT costs for the Container of games or for the distributor. I am a customer in EU and when the game itself is shipped from a warehouse or a fullfilment center within the EU then I as a customer have no problem. I think here is way to much talk about stuff that doesnt even have to bother the end customer...as in a earlyer updated stated...
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Arthur Petersen
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Okey let me get this straight, because i think there is a lot of confusion. The Customer itself in the EU is only paying VAT when the game is delivered directly to the customer from outside the EU. I don't care about VAT costs for the Container of games or for the distributor. I am a customer in EU and when the game itself is shipped from a warehouse or a fullfilment center within the EU then I as a customer have no problem. I think here is way to much talk about stuff that doesnt even have to bother the end customer...as in a earlyer updated stated...



ok, so let ME get this straight...since I know nothing about VAT in the EU except what people tell me...then why didn't what the update said and Sandy's confirmation that "the game is shipped from China to regional warehouses around the world, from which it makes its way to your home" (emphasis added) suffice?

I am confused. I spent about an hour talking with Cody about stuff I knew little about so I could be the most clear to y'all. And you already had the information necessary ? shake

I'm probably missing stuff still.

one of the regional warehouses WILL BE WITHIN THE EU.............
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Jack Swan
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Arthur, we thought we had "the answer" since update 61, but talking about 'diminishing VAT' in the latest update, which adresses your backers, is confusing for me and many other backers.
If the VAT quote had been internal, like in an internal GEG memo, adressed to GEG, we might have understood that you, as a company, are still trying to not get burned to bad by import taxes.
In that case we feel for you cry

I 'm starting to think this is a matter of communicative mixup, but given the amounts considered, I'd rather be sure than hopeful.

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Arthur Petersen
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Quote:
Arthur, we thought we had "the answer" since update 61, but talking about 'diminishing VAT' in the latest update, which adresses your backers, is confusing for me and many other backers.
If the VAT quote had been internal, like in an internal GEG memo, adressed to GEG, we might have understood that you, as a company, are still trying to not get burned to bad by import taxes.
In that case we feel for you cry

I 'm starting to think this is a matter of communicative mixup, but given the amounts considered, I'd rather be sure than hopeful.


It's certainly clear that there is some kind of mixup! And the mixup is that I should have remained silent about anything
I was only trying to help because there has been so much anguish in this thread, so I thought I would get the scoop from the man at GEG who knows all. Somehow that didn't work out blush

But let me copy here the entire text of update 61:
"We want to thank all of our European backers for their support and patience. Today we are happy to announce that we have made arrangements to provide distribution of your backer rewards from within the European Union! Additional details will be made available as we finalize everything."

That says nothing about VAT. Wait, wait, wait, before you tell me I'm dumb. I understand that the whole point of it being shipped from within the EU is that you won't have to pay VAT. So, in a way, it is very specifically talking about VAT. I get that.

HOWEVER, the update that began this thread ALSO says very clearly:
"[individual orders will be] sent to regional warehouses for dissemination to local carriers, who happily deliver the product to your door." In other words...shipping from within the EU.

Both updates say the exact same thing with regards to shipping. Nothing has changed. If it is clear to the EU backers that "shipping from within the EU = no VAT" then why was everyone so concerned?

So, I think, Jack, you are spot on. I think you are entirely correct that it is communicative mixup. The sentence about "diminishing VAT issues" might have to do, as you suggest, with GEG's import taxes. But, those aren't the same thing as VAT, are they?

I don't know. I cannot fathom the mind of those at GEG at why they word things the way they do. I did my best by talking directly to Cody. Maybe I can get him to get on this thread...whistle

EDIT: And to be perfectly clear with where I am coming from: it WAS NOT clear to me from talking to Cody that shipping from within the EU automatically eliminates the VAT. Of course, I did not directly ask that at the time, because I did not have enough knowledge even to know I should know that!

FURTHER EDIT: I do understand this is a very touchy subject, as it involved the worry of having to potentially pay a lot of money, especially after believing you wouldn't have to. Let me end this post this way:
Take my tone as ENTIRELY inquisitive and curious - I am trying to understand all the things, not be argumentative (that's frankly the last thing I want to be!).
Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that this all boils down to a single sentence of poor word choice in the recent update about shipping, and otherwise, no VAT for EU backers. Hurray!
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Jack Swan
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existoid wrote:
The sentence about "diminishing VAT issues" might have to do, as you suggest, with GEG's import taxes. But, those aren't the same thing as VAT, are they?

Indeed, these are not the same, as far as I understand, and quite probably the cause of the recent VAT confusion.
The whole point of an EU to EU shipping arrangement, in my understanding, is that the importing company pays the taxes to import goods into the EU instead of pushing the bill to the private persons we call backers (business tax supposedly being somewhat less painful than private tax).
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