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Subject: What IDs can best use Keyhole? rss

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Alex Rockwell
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Having played Keyhole in a couple different decks (Reina, Andromeda mostly), my thoughts:


1) Keyhole is very powerful when it works. It will crush a defenseless R&D faster than ANYTHING.

2) It really does constrain your MU a lot, which was problematic for Andromeda.

3) It doesnt actually lock R&D, so if that NBN player has a SanSan and 4 points already, you cant just ignore the SanSan.

4) Keyhole murders Jinteki net damage decks, very, very hard.


I have come to the conclusion that R&D interface is probably better than Keyhole in Andromeda. Except against Jinteki. Keyhole is always the best against Jinteki!

I like Keyhole in Reina (or Whizzard), especially when combined with more denial tools like Vamp or Siphon. If your plan is to prevent them from having rezzed ice on R&D and then Keyhole them, then is a good plan.


Keyhole should be tried in a Shaper, though I havent done it yet. A 1-of Keyhole that you can tutor for with SMC could be quite valuable. And shaper has Akamatsu Mem Chip in faction, which ALSO is a good defense against Power Shutdown now (until you max your MU)! If you can blow a hole in their R&D defenses with parasites, Keyhole will end the game the fastest, before they can replace the defense.




What do you think? What IDs have you played Keyhole in, and how well did it work?
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Zeb
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How about Noise with medium and account siphon? Extreme pressure on all central servers and you could also target down Jacksons making Noise better.
 
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Sebastian Barth
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Let's just say the Professor ticks all the points you mention whistle
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Sam Suied
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I've had a lot of success with a barebones rig + vamp + absurd amount of econ set up: http://forum.stimhack.com/t/winning-decklists-clockwork-game...

I've ditched the aesops/wyldside/hostage/1of connections set up for a faster economy, but the idea is the same
 
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Alex Rockwell
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SamRS wrote:
I've had a lot of success with a barebones rig + vamp + absurd amount of econ set up: http://forum.stimhack.com/t/winning-decklists-clockwork-game...

I've ditched the aesops/wyldside/hostage/1of connections set up for a faster economy, but the idea is the same

That decklist is interesting to me. Its very much all about taking their money and then abusing keyhole!

What is the new version of your list without the Hostages and connections?
 
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Sam Suied
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Alexfrog wrote:
SamRS wrote:
I've had a lot of success with a barebones rig + vamp + absurd amount of econ set up: http://forum.stimhack.com/t/winning-decklists-clockwork-game...

I've ditched the aesops/wyldside/hostage/1of connections set up for a faster economy, but the idea is the same

That decklist is interesting to me. Its very much all about taking their money and then abusing keyhole!

What is the new version of your list without the Hostages and connections?

Still testing it out but right now I'm running this http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/2045/vamp-abuse

One thing I realized is none of the influence is necessary, so whatever you think the fastest econ set up is can be brought in, although I really like the easy marks for getting to liberated account money.

EDIT: I have yet to see the same old things in testing, not even sure if they're worth the slot
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Zeb
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SamRS wrote:
Alexfrog wrote:
SamRS wrote:
I've had a lot of success with a barebones rig + vamp + absurd amount of econ set up: http://forum.stimhack.com/t/winning-decklists-clockwork-game...

I've ditched the aesops/wyldside/hostage/1of connections set up for a faster economy, but the idea is the same

That decklist is interesting to me. Its very much all about taking their money and then abusing keyhole!

What is the new version of your list without the Hostages and connections?

Still testing it out but right now I'm running this http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/2045/vamp-abuse

One thing I realized is none of the influence is necessary, so whatever you think the fastest econ set up is can be brought in, although I really like the easy marks for getting to liberated account money

I'm confused, why no account siphon?
 
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Sam Suied
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Zebadiah wrote:
I'm confused, why no account siphon?

The siphon version wasn't bad, it just felt kinda high variance (you either draw the siphon early and win or don't draw it and sputter out)
 
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Jesse M
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I'm running this. It's basically just an Atman deck that happens to have Keyhole in it, and that's how I treat it.

I think it works well with SMC, and with Clone Chip/SMC you can be relatively sure you'll get in for a turn or two if you have enough economy going. Sometimes you get Keyhole out and steal a few points quickly, sometimes you get it out and win almost immediately, and sometimes you don't even bother with it.

I'd also add that I think sharpshooter adds a lot to Shaper right now, and makes it easier to deal with being shut out by a virus counter purge, which is part of the reason I'm playing it at the moment.

Kate "Mac" McCaffrey: Digital Tinker

Event (14)
3 Diesel
3 Dirty Laundry
1 Escher
2 Scavenge
3 Sure Gamble
2 Test Run

Hardware (9)
2 Akamatsu Mem Chip
3 Clone Chip
2 Desperado ••••• •
2 Plascrete Carapace

Resource (9)
3 Daily Casts
3 Kati Jones
3 Professional Contacts

Icebreaker (5)
3 Atman
1 Femme Fatale
1 Sharpshooter

Program (8)
3 Datasucker •••
1 Keyhole •••
1 Parasite ••
3 Self-modifying Code
 
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Zeb
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SamRS wrote:
Zebadiah wrote:
I'm confused, why no account siphon?

The siphon version wasn't bad, it just felt kinda high variance (you either draw the siphon early and win or don't draw it and sputter out)

It synergizes very well with vamp, I don't understand how it adds variance to the deck.
 
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Greg Nordeng
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Keyhole has an amazing affect, but it seems to be a very timely card. Playing it early can bottle up MU and credits, handcuffing you once they sufficiently recover from vulnerable R&D.

Later in the game, you need to be able to efficiently run their R&D over and over, so you either need efficient breakers or an empty/cheap to break server.

Logically it fits in with Anarch for its effect, but logistically it is a nightmare for Anarch. I think the best build would be a Kate(shaper) ICE destruction.

-Has efficient breakers
-Can support the MU
-Can get Keyhole when needed allowing to play only 1
-Kate was already good at ice destruction (Clone Chip/Parasite/Datasucker/(possibly Wyrm)
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Robert Robinson
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I've been seeing a lot of success with it in my Ra Ra Noise deck. The amount of milling that happens means that corp can never hope to use Jackson to get back everything. I've even gotten an empty R&D win when I had been locked out of archives, but still had access to R&D. The Djinns mean I don't have to worry about the memory cost of Keyhole. When it comes to milling: more is better!

Ra Ra Noise v2 (45 cards)

Noise: Hacker Extraordinaire

Event (8)
1 Deja Vu
3 Easy Mark •••
1 Stimhack
3 Sure Gamble

Hardware (7)
2 Clone Chip ••••
2 Grimoire
3 Plascrete Carapace

Resource (7)
1 Aesop's Pawnshop ••
3 Kati Jones
3 Wyldside

Icebreaker (6)
1 Corroder
2 Crypsis
2 Mimic
1 Yog.0

Program (17)
3 Datasucker
3 Djinn
3 Imp
2 Keyhole
3 Parasite
3 Sahasrara ••••• •

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Liang Zhong
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I'm playing this deck with some degree of success. It's a basic parasite recursion / datasucker / wyrm deck with an Aesop / Event econ who tries to open central servers as much as possible. The Chakana is there in case i'm playing against a Fast-Ad deck. I used to play 2 RDI + 1 Indexing with one more datasucker and nerve agent. I feel the Keyhole Version is a little bit more explosive but really not as stable as the RDI/Indexing + Nerve Agent version.

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Kate "Mac" McCaffrey: Digital Tinker

Event (15)
3 Diesel
3 Dirty Laundry
2 Indexing
2 Levy AR Lab Access
3 Sure Gamble
2 Test Run

Hardware (9)
3 Akamatsu Mem Chip
3 Clone Chip
1 Grimoire ••
2 Plascrete Carapace

Resource (9)
2 Aesop's Pawnshop
2 Armitage Codebusting
3 Daily Casts
2 Ice Analyzer

Icebreaker (2)
1 Deus X
1 Wyrm ••

Program (10)
1 Chakana
2 Datasucker ••
1 Keyhole •••
3 Parasite ••••• •
3 Self-modifying Code

Built with http://netrunner.meteor.com/
 
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Alejandro G.
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No datasuckers Sam?
 
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Thomas R
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I haven't been testing with a lot of different approaches, but I've had a lot of success with Keyhole in an ice-pressure Reina deck. Forged Activation Orders, Emergency Shutdown, Vamp, and a one-of Kraken combined with Parasite pressure make it a lot more likely that I'll get that "no ice on R&D and the corp is broke" setups that basically just win you the game.

I've especially been happy with Forged Activation Orders as it puts a lot of pressure on the corp to choose between losing credits at the wrong time vs losing an ice. And in an ice-destruction deck, the ice cards themselves are a really stretched resource.

Kraken has also been very good to me. Keyhole is probably one of the strongest combos you can get with Kraken because running a Keyhole deck means that you get to choose when you want to score an agenda, which takes away a lot of the timing problems that Kraken has had historically.
 
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Alejandro G.
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I would imagine that a keyhole with an aggressive Kit could be fairly useful too, her influence is just a bit tight.
 
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Sam Suied
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
No datasuckers Sam?

those cost memory, memory is precious and in use

Zebadiah wrote:


It synergizes very well with vamp, I don't understand how it adds variance to the deck.

It does have synergy with vamp, it doesn't have synergy with all the resources.

as for the variance part, all your draw power is splashed, so you either have 3 siphons and no way to dig for them efficiently, or you don't have femmes and easy marks (which are very useful) or you only have 2 siphons which makes it harder to find them. If you do manage to hit a siphon it's great, however you could just use that influence for 6 economy cards and the effect is similar as far as you're concerned, but you're more likely to see them.
 
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Robert Robinson
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
I would imagine that a keyhole with an aggressive Kit could be fairly useful too, her influence is just a bit tight.

I doubt that very much. Even in the late early game Kit can only really make 1 effective run per turn. To fully utilize keyhole you want to be making multiple R&D runs followed by an archives run, or at least 1 R&D and an archives. Otherwise you're at the mercy of Jackson. Also, as you state, her influence doesn't really allow it.
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Tobin Lopes
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Our local group has been using Kit with Keyhole. It allows for focus on R&D while being flexible to run other servers. Kraken is strong as ICE denial and HQ interface works as a bit of surprise once they ICE up R&D and Archives.

Rielle "Kit" Peddler: Transhuman (Creation and Control)

Event (19)
3x Diesel (Core Set)
2x Tinkering (Core Set)
2x Infiltration (Core Set)
2x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
2x Test Run (Cyber Exodus)
2x Kraken (Humanity's Shadow)
2x Indexing (Future Proof)
1x Escher (Creation and Control)
1x Levy AR Lab Access (Creation and Control)
2x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)

Hardware (7)
2x Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead)
2x Dinosaurus (Cyber Exodus)
1x HQ Interface (Humanity's Shadow) ••
2x R&D Interface (Future Proof)

Resource (5)
2x Kati Jones (Humanity's Shadow)
2x Daily Casts (Creation and Control)
1x Woman in the Red Dress (Mala Tempora)

Icebreaker (9)
2x Femme Fatale (Core Set) ••
2x Gordian Blade (Core Set)
2x Snowball (Trace Amount)
1x Deus X (A Study in Static)
2x Cyber-Cypher (Creation and Control)

Program (5)
1x Net Shield (Core Set)
2x Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control)
2x Keyhole (True Colors) ••••• •
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Steve Houston
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I very much like it in my Reina chess deck with Account Siphon and Data Leak Reversal. I like to think of it as an economic warfare deck.

Keyhole is the win condition. I get to use it by:

-Killing ice with Parasites and Datasuckers
-Breaking the corp with Account Siphon and Knight, then Rook/Xanadu R&D and hope they can't rez for a few turns.
-Drop 2-3 Data Leak Reversals, self-tag with Account Siphon, John Masanori, or Activist Support (just 1 copy!) then watch the corp break himself killing the DLRs.

When the plan works, at least.
 
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Philip von Doomula
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My vote is for Chaos Theory.

Glory to the Wonderhole!
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spags
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Chaos Theory.
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spags
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Quarashi wrote:
My vote is for Chaos Theory.

Glory to the Wonderhole!

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Bob Bobberson
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tobinlopes wrote:
Our local group has been using Kit with Keyhole. It allows for focus on R&D while being flexible to run other servers. Kraken is strong as ICE denial and HQ interface works as a bit of surprise once they ICE up R&D and Archives.

Rielle "Kit" Peddler: Transhuman (Creation and Control)

Event (19)
3x Diesel (Core Set)
2x Tinkering (Core Set)
2x Infiltration (Core Set)
2x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
2x Test Run (Cyber Exodus)
2x Kraken (Humanity's Shadow)
2x Indexing (Future Proof)
1x Escher (Creation and Control)
1x Levy AR Lab Access (Creation and Control)
2x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)

Hardware (7)
2x Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead)
2x Dinosaurus (Cyber Exodus)
1x HQ Interface (Humanity's Shadow) ••
2x R&D Interface (Future Proof)

Resource (5)
2x Kati Jones (Humanity's Shadow)
2x Daily Casts (Creation and Control)
1x Woman in the Red Dress (Mala Tempora)

Icebreaker (9)
2x Femme Fatale (Core Set) ••
2x Gordian Blade (Core Set)
2x Snowball (Trace Amount)
1x Deus X (A Study in Static)
2x Cyber-Cypher (Creation and Control)

Program (5)
1x Net Shield (Core Set)
2x Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control)
2x Keyhole (True Colors) ••••• •

Some interesting cards in here, but putting Keyhole in Shaper has to make you compare it to simply having Indexing and RDI/Maker's Eyes.

Instead of the Keyholes you could just splash 3 Parasites and 3 Datasuckers and molest R&D the old fashioned way.
 
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Alejandro G.
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Not sure if I would splash x2 Keyhole either. I would rather pull the one copy with a tutor.
 
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