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Hornet Leader: Carrier Air Operations» Forums » Rules

Subject: Scramble Improvement Card rss

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michal
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How would you play Target Card 37 "Missile Boat Fleet" if you haven't destroy them (I know this is easy target but it is possible to draw some bad Event which will eliminate some planes and other planes may have bad luck in first turn so they will be damaged or unfit).

Target has words: Scramble and Improvement which means it stays in game.

My guess is that word Scramble should force to take this target as primary for next day although word Scramble does not prevent from drawing cards (so it would be possible get some secondary Target).

Quote:
Scramble - As soon as you draw one of these cards, stop
drawing Target cards. You must select this card as your Day’s
Primary mission.

Quote:
Improvement - This trait activates when the Target card is
drawn. Apply the effect until you Destroy the Target card. If
you do not select or Destroy these Target cards, do not discard
them. These cards remain available for mission selection, in
addition to your Recon Target draws, until Destroyed.
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Ryan
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c08mk wrote:
My guess is that word Scramble should force to take this target as primary for next day although word Scramble does not prevent from drawing cards (so it would be possible get some secondary Target).

That's how I would play the Target card if I didn't destroy it. Scramble against it next turn. What is the Improvement ability? I don't have the game in front of me.
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Judy Krauss
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Oh, that's tough! I'd say that because it has the "improvement" AND "scramble" traits, that, indeed, you must choose it as your primary each turn (and that you aren't allowed to draw any other target cards) until you defeat it.

EDIT: To clarify, the improvement trait would mean that the card is not discarded, while the scramble trait would then force you to choose it as your primary mission and NOT draw any more target cards that turn. I suppose if you have another improvement card in play with the secondary trait (are there any?) then you could choose that card as a secondary mission.
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Joe Markowski
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Jude wrote:
Oh, that's tough! I'd say that because it has the "improvement" AND "scramble" traits, that, indeed, you must choose it as your primary each turn (and that you aren't allowed to draw any other target cards) until you defeat it.

EDIT: To clarify, the improvement trait would mean that the card is not discarded, while the scramble trait would then force you to choose it as your primary mission and NOT draw any more target cards that turn. I suppose if you have another improvement card in play with the secondary trait (are there any?) then you could choose that card as a secondary mission.

This is how I understood the rules as well.
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michal
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Ryanmobile wrote:
...What is the Improvement ability?...

It has 1 Weight Point penalty.

Jude wrote:
...while the scramble trait would then force you to choose it as your primary mission and NOT draw any more target cards that turn.


My concern is from words "As soon as you draw one of these cards" (yet my another translation problem). So does it mean that I should stop drawing cards only after I draw "Scramble" or is it stop draw for the whole Campaign.
If it is only for the turn when "Scramble" was drawn than "Improvment" allow me to draw cards next turn.

Which ... would cause another conflict when second "Scramble" was drawn without "Secondary" word. In this case I would play second "Scramble" as primary mission and first "Improvement Scramble" would have to wait.

Second "Scramble" sentence is obvious that "you must select this card as your Day’s Primary mission."
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Neil Roberts
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Interesting - I would have played it that the scramble takes effect when you draw it, and would not affect the next day.

The actual wording of the improvement on this card is
"Increase the weight point penalty of all targets by 1" [emphasis mine]

If the scramble comes into effect on subsequent days, then the only other targets it could affect are ones with the improvement keyword that were drawn prior to this target.

I guess I saw "sramble" as a mad dash to intercept and destroy a threatening target, and I find it difficult to imagine waking up 24 hours later and it still having the same urgency. (surely their attack would have been completed or broken up by then).

Having said that, with all the other replies going the other way, I'm prepared to doubt myself. I know this game is a little abstracted, so my logic doesn't necessarily hold up.
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Judy Krauss
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NezRobbo wrote:
Interesting - I would have played it that the scramble takes effect when you draw it, and would not affect the next day.

The actual wording of the improvement on this card is
"Increase the weight point penalty of all targets by 1" [emphasis mine]

If the scramble comes into effect on subsequent days, then the only other targets it could affect are ones with the improvement keyword that were drawn prior to this target.

I guess I saw "sramble" as a mad dash to intercept and destroy a threatening target, and I find it difficult to imagine waking up 24 hours later and it still having the same urgency. (surely their attack would have been completed or broken up by then).

Having said that, with all the other replies going the other way, I'm prepared to doubt myself. I know this game is a little abstracted, so my logic doesn't necessarily hold up.


Hmm, you've convinced me.

I officially change my mind based on your reasoning concerning the Improvement requirement of ""Increase the weight point penalty of all targets by 1".

So, since the "Missile Boat Fleet" Scramble card has an Improvement, it isn't discarded until it is destroyed, but if you don't destroy it on the turn when it is drawn (when Scramble immediately goes into effect), then on subsequent turns, the "Scramble" trait is no longer in effect, but the Improvement is, until the "Scramble" target card is destroyed.

It still doesn't make perfect sense, since, just because you decide to choose that "Missile Boat Fleet" target card (after already failing to destroy it once) doesn't mean that the threat would still be there to be attacked. I guess we are to assume that the fleet is still there, but the urgency to defend against it is gone.
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Darrell Pavitt
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But when you wake up next morning with big fiery holes in your carrier, you will wish you had sunk those boats...
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michal
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Finally I found sentence on forums.

DanVerssen wrote:
Always apply all the instructions on a card.

In this case, if there was a Site, you would apply the restriction. But, you always get the XP.


Although it was question about Event Card but my guess is that answer cover all type of cards (Always apply all the instructions on a card). So "Scramble" still should be active next day.
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Neil Roberts
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maybe, I'm still not sure.

You have in fact applied the instruction on the card (on the day you drew it, you applied the scramble part - but this doesn't necessarily mean it applies again on day 2)

The rule for Scramble says "As soon as you draw one of these cards, stop drawing Target cards. You must select this card as your Day's Primary mission."

Assuming that the key there is that it triggers when you draw the card, it will only trigger at that point. On subsequent days when you come to the draw target cards phase, the card is already in play, so you aren't drawing it, so you would draw targets as normal for that day.

I don't think either argument is entirely persuasive though, so I guess it comes down to whether you see the keyword Scramble as a triggered effect (as the wording "as soon as you draw" implies to me) or an ongoing effect (like the Improvement keyword certainly is)

Unless we get an official ruling on it, I'd suggest it could be played either way depending on personal taste.
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Michael Andersch
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I think it's quite clear:

- you draw Cards
- you draw Target #37. It tells you to scramble. So you stop drawing and make this card your day's mission
- if you destroy it: everything's fine
- if you do not destroy it, its improvement is still valid the next day, but not the trait word "scramble".

Why not?
a) Why yes? If there's another target you don't manage to destroy, this target's trait word(s) also doesn't apply the next day, so why should this be the case with "scramble"?
b) "Improvement" is the only trait word that stays in effect until destroyed. Why? Simply because it's in the rules: "Apply the effect until you destroy the Target Card". If "Scramble" also was intended to be valid the next round(s), this for sure would have been stated in the rules, too.
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Fernando Sola Ramos
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Micha wrote:
I think it's quite clear:

- you draw Cards
- you draw Target #37. It tells you to scramble. So you stop drawing and make this card your day's mission
- if you destroy it: everything's fine
- if you do not destroy it, its improvement is still valid the next day, but not the trait word "scramble".

Why not?
a) Why yes? If there's another target you don't manage to destroy, this target's trait word(s) also doesn't apply the next day, so why should this be the case with "scramble"?
b) "Improvement" is the only trait word that stays in effect until destroyed. Why? Simply because it's in the rules: "Apply the effect until you destroy the Target Card". If "Scramble" also was intended to be valid the next round(s), this for sure would have been stated in the rules, too.


I would improve the sequence this way:
-You draw Target #37. You stop drawing cards and scramble, making it your day's mission and applying the increasing 1WP penalty improvement.
-If destroyed: problem solved.
-If not destroyed, then next day you don't need to scramble, but the improvement takes effect, adding a 1WP penalty to any target chosen.
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