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Subject: Comparison to Pastiche rss

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Cody Moultrie
United States
St. George
Utah
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I'm considering backing Scoville on Kickstarter, but first wanted to see how people think the game compares to Pastiche. We've played Pastiche and some of the things that I enjoyed about that game are found in similar mechanics in Scoville. My wife really likes Pastiche, but for me I felt like something was lacking. I'm hoping that Scoville could be similar to Pastiche, but with a few tweaks that make both of us really enjoy it.

The mechanics of Pastiche that I liked that share a similarity with Scoville are:

- Placing tiles to obtain colors and mixing colors to obtain other colors / placing peppers and positioning farmer to obtain desired peppers
- Painting commissions by paying the required colors / fulfilling recipes by paying the required peppers
- Competing to produce publicly available commissions / competing to make publicly available recipes

I think my biggest problem with Pastiche was how the placement of your tile at the beginning of your turn was somewhat arbitrary. The decision generally came down to placing the tile to obtain a color you need, a wide variety of colors, or a rare color. And it was difficult to get the rare colors. It was easy to set up the board to allow the next player to get a rare color, but trying to plan to get your own rare color was basically impossible. In a two player game, it was possible to place a tile such that two rare colors could be produced, which would ensure you'd get your rare color, but would also ensure your opponent would get one also. It seems like Scoville offers players more control in the communal pepper field.

Another minor issue I had with Pastiche was the sameness of the process. The game generally came down to building up a big supply of colors, expending them to paint the commissions, building up your supply of colors again, expending them to paint the commissions again, and then the game (usually) ends. How does Scovile compare with the repetitive nature of Pastiche?

Without having actually played Scoville, I feel like bidding for turn order, more control of the pepper field, and having the market stall bonuses available are all things that can take a game similar to Pastiche and make it better.

Does anyone have experience with playing both of these games? How do they compare and contrast?
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Marc Bennett
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i have not played Pastiche but i just watched a review of it to see if i could help you out.

the biggest difference i can see is how you acquire your colors. in Pastiche you gain colors for placing tiles, in Scoville you gain peppers by moving your farmer.

this makes a big difference because once a tile is on the board in Pastiche if you cant combine it with what you have its worthless. in Scoville you always have to look at the entire board not only to place peppers where you need them but to move and harvest the peppers you need and also try and block your opponent from what they need, or maybe take advantage of what your opponent planted. it is a lot more dynamic system.

getting what you need is also somewhat easier. any pepper bred to itself is 2 pepper of that type, rather than needing 3 of the same colors in Pastiche to get 1. also in scoville you have an auction for turn order and peppers at the same time. so if the color pops up that you need, bid higher for turn order and its yours.

my biggest recommendation though is to print out the PnP and play it. that will be the best way to see for yourself what the differences are and how well you and your wife enjoy the mechanics. if youve never done a PnP before you dont have to do anything special, i just printed out the important parts, laminated them and cut them out. i would use something else for the money, but if you dont have the right color cubes then they have pepper tokens to laminate and cut out. i just kept the rules in digital format and refereed to them when needed.

if you have any questions please feel free to ask.
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Ed P Marriott
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Hi Cody, thanks for your question.

I'm the designer of Scoville, and while I've never played Pastiche, I've done my homework on the game so I'll do my best to answer.

First, to address your biggest problem of Pastiche being the arbitrary placement of tiles: In Scoville, where you plant your peppers matters greatly! What you are trying to do by planting peppers is to build the field so that you have the right cross-breeding opportunities in the game.

Second, tile placement in Pastiche is a one-time "harvest" of color cards. In Scoville you can move your pawn through the planted peppers on every single turn of the game, if you so desired. So planted peppers do not lose any value the way a Pastiche tile would if it were completely surrounded. So yes, Scoville offers a good amount of control over what gets harvested.

Third, in Pastiche you can collect a bunch of color cards and play them all together and, as you mentioned, the process can feel "same-y." In Scoville, each turn is a progression of the previous because the fields change each turn. With players planting peppers each turn, the board presents new cross-breeding opportunities which can perhaps make you adjust your strategy slightly. So due to the field filling up and the orders and recipes being fulfilled, there is no "same-y" feeling from turn to turn.

So, while I have not played Pastiche, I believe that Scoville is a great step up that provides great differences in gameplay from Pastiche. There are a ton of interesting decisions to be made throughout the game.

If people have played Pastiche, please chime in here in case I said anything incorrect about the game.

Thanks,
Ed
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Cody Moultrie
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St. George
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RalphTheSquirrel wrote:
Hi Cody, thanks for your question.

(provides answers)

Thanks,
Ed

Thanks for responding to my questions Ed. Based on your responses, and then reading through the print and play rules, I'm thinking that Scoville might work for us. I just need to print it out and try it to make sure!

Not to derail my own thread, but one thing that I liked about the print and play files was the pepper tiles. I like that they have a half circle on each side that lines up with the adjacent peppers. It makes it very clear what combination you are breeding and where your farmer can go. Was using those cardboard tiles instead of cubes ever considered for the final game?
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Ed P Marriott
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Hi Cody, Thanks for considering the game. I believe you will really enjoy it.

As for the cardboard tiles, I put them into the PNP for those who do not have a stockpile of cubes. For the finished version we always wanted something "meatier" like cubes or pepper shaped pieces. I do enjoy that they line up edge to edge and show exactly what's breeding. However, the cubes/peppers make for a more enjoyable gaming experience. Can't you just picture a big pile of colorful pepper pieces sitting on your gaming table?

Also, the real rules (4p version - will be upgraded to 6p) are available on the Kickstarter page (click the rules image midway down):

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/michaelmindes/scoville-...

I'll be happy to answer any other questions!
~ Ed
 
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Bill Gallagher
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I thought about Pastiche when I played the prototype with the designer (2 player) at BGG.CON. I made the decision based on that one play to support the Kickstarter when it launched. I have indeed done just that.

I'm looking forward to seeing this released! I'm especially interested in seeing how the auction mechanic works in larger games.

I'm considering printing the PnP on 120# paper and seeing how much interest there is at a local convention this coming weekend!
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Brett Hudoba
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After watching the Kickstarter video, the game seems less like Pastiche and far more like Fresco.

Would anyone kindly comment on THAT comparison?
 
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Glenn Eikenberry
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chindent wrote:
After watching the Kickstarter video, the game seems less like Pastiche and far more like Fresco.

Would anyone kindly comment on THAT comparison?

Good question! I do my best to answer that question here - http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1114064/scoville-vs-fresco
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