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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition): Shards of the Throne» Forums » Rules

Subject: Saar SpaceDocks rss

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Kristján Karl Kristjánsson
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Hello!
i have a couple of Questions

1. Space Domain counters (Final Fronties)
Specify "Units" when moving things into the system in order to flip
the Space Domain counter there. (look it up )

Does a Saar Spacedock Then Flip the Domain Counter, and if the Domain counter is indeed "Space Pirates" then technicaly according to the rulings on Saar Spacedocks if the Saar Spacedock is attacked by a "Dreadnaught"
does the Dreadnaught count as an enemy Ship? or is it only an effect provided by the Space Domain Counter.
its a Counter not a Plastic Ship.

2.
Also would an "Enemy Ship" be considdered "Any" ship not your own or would it be considdered "opponent's" as in Another players.
Hence if i was flipping a Planetary Domain Counter and found 2Fighters and i would lose the space battle against theese fighters (Domain Counter) if my Saar SpaceDock we're present during the fight would it be Destroyed or would'nt it?


To summerize: Does my Saar Spacedock Die if i Choose not to pay TG's
and my SD gets attacked by a "Dreadnaught"
And
Does my Saar spacedock die if i lose a space battle with a Planetary Domain Counter?

(Saar Spacedocks from Shattered Empire)
Saar Space Docks
As described on their race sheet, the Clan of Saar’s
Space Docks have a base movement of 1. The follow-
ing rules also pertain to Saar Space Docks:
• Saar Space Docks may only be built in a system
containing a planet that you have controlled for the
entire game round.
• Saar Space Docks do not count as ships and there-
fore do not count towards Fleet Supply and do not
participate in Space Battles.
• Saar Space Docks are never blockaded; they are
simply destroyed if present with enemy ships.
• Ground Forces and PDS units built in systems con-
taining Saar Space Docks may be placed on any plan-
et you control in the system, or they may go on a
Carrier. If you do not have a planet or Carrier in the
system to place Ground Force or PDS units on, you
may not build them.
 
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David Damerell
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Ow, apostrophes.

This comes down to one of my favourite self-contradictory TI3 rules:

"When the rules refer to an “enemy” planet or unit, it refers to any unit or planet not controlled by you (i.e., controlled by any other player)."

You will notice that both neutral planets and rules like Distant Suns mean there are units and planets which are not controlled by you, but which are also not controlled by any other player. Are they "enemy" planets or units? Who knows.

There have been some specific clarifications from Corey, but my feeling is that any unit which is not yours is an "enemy" unit unless a FAQ answer explicitly says otherwise. Hence, unless there's an answer to the contrary (and I don't think there is) I think a Saar Spacedock would be destroyed in these circumstances, and furthermore that seems like an answer which makes sense.
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Starkiller
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I second this....
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Brian Petersen
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Actually, Corey has ruled several times that "neutral" units are not "enemy" units.

I distinctly remember seeing a thread where Corey said that #1 - You can be in the Mecatol Rex system using Custodians of Mecatol Rex, and as long as you don't land, the Custodians do not attack. #2 - Similarly, if it has been revealed that there is a Fighter Ambush in the system, you only have to fight it when attempting to land, and it does not blockade a Space Dock. (When later invading the planet, you would complete the Resolve Combat step prior to the Production Step).

Since a Fighter Ambush has been ruled to return to the planet after battle, and the Space Pirates token is discarded after battle, I would treat this as if there was mutual destruction in the battle. If a battle ends in mutual destruction with Saar, their Space Docks survive. You did not "win/lose a space battle", and there are not space units occupying the same space as the Saar Space Dock after the battle ends, which is the only effect that causes them to be destroyed.

"Saar Space Docks are never blockaded; they are
simply destroyed if present with enemy ships."
Oh, self-contradictory rules again... This would literally mean that if your system is even attacked, your Space Docks would be destroyed, immediately after PDS fire.
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Scott Lewis
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TomBoombs wrote:
I distinctly remember seeing a thread where Corey said that #1 - You can be in the Mecatol Rex system using Custodians of Mecatol Rex, and as long as you don't land, the Custodians do not attack.
This is true, but I think the question is asking about what if you DO land and all you have is a Space Dock there (or if the fighters wipe out any ships you have leaving your Space Dock alone).

Quote:
#2 - Similarly, if it has been revealed that there is a Fighter Ambush in the system, you only have to fight it when attempting to land, and it does not blockade a Space Dock. (When later invading the planet, you would complete the Resolve Combat step prior to the Production Step).
That's also true, but again I'm not sure it applies to this situation, as it's not asking about blockading, but about destroying the Saar docks, which cannot be blockaded anyway (but are destroyed).


IE, I don't think those previous rulings really set a precedent for this particular situation.
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Seren of Moon
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There's been a few items that have come up in our PBF game in which Aruze is the Saar. Actually, I think Aruze is the Saar in every one of his games.

Here's a few rulings I'll put out there for comment and/or verification. (Mainly because one of my favorite rules guys doesn't hang with the coolest PBF community for TI3 in existence. Yet.)

First, the Nekro FS came in to the Saar "eggs in one nest" formation. All ships were destroyed after the Nekro ship went pop. Saar SDs miraculously survived because they were not ships.

Second, a Saar SD by itself cannot take over a Trade Station. It takes a ship to do that.

Third, if the Saar get their racial tech and park a SD in an AF, other players may still move THROUGH the AF so long as they have AMD. SDs never block movement by themselves. The Saar SD survives this fly-by, because enemy ships are not present at the end of the activation.
 
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David Damerell
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SWC_Seren wrote:
First, the Nekro FS came in to the Saar "eggs in one nest" formation. All ships were destroyed after the Nekro ship went pop. Saar SDs miraculously survived because they were not ships.

That I think can easily be rationalised. The SDs hang back from the battle, so they don't just get blown up; but when the battle is over, any enemy survivor can shoot them down.

(What about a Saar SD and an enemy fighter with no carrier support after the battle? There may be a good answer to that one; I'm not looking right now.)

Quote:
Second, a Saar SD by itself cannot take over a Trade Station. It takes a ship to do that.

That makes sense because it is necessary to be armed to compel a trade station to comply.

Quote:
Third, if the Saar get their racial tech and park a SD in an AF, other players may still move THROUGH the AF so long as they have AMD. SDs never block movement by themselves. The Saar SD survives this fly-by, because enemy ships are not present at the end of the activation.

I think that is undisputed.
 
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