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The Resistance: Avalon» Forums » Rules

Subject: So there actually IS a situation where it's cheating when... rss

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Kenny Lofton
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...you tell somebody who you are.

well I'm new here. maybe there are dozens lol, so sorry for the dramatic thread title.

This sunday we played again. A group of 10! 4 of us knew the game, everbody else was new (and to games in general). So I decided to take it really easy on the very first round, and I only explained Merlin's and Percival's Role and logic behind it. To balance it out (it was my first time playing with anything other than merlin/assasin, I only have this game for 3 weeks now), I decided to bring in "the green zombie" as someone called Oberon.

We start the game, and I am Percival. Merlin is sitting right next to me. So, after reading here that you can signal under the table, I signaled him that I was Percival, and he got it. From that moment on, it was super easy for him, to just grunt or sigh when I was talking and making comments about who might be evil/good. There was no way, anybody else beside me was going to pick that up.

We ended up winning, with people thinking I am Merlin, so we won.

Later on I realized: Merlin + Percival without Morgana ==> if you signal Merlin, it HAS to be cheating. Right? There is no way to justify that. Morgana HAS to be in there.
 
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Charlie Theel
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I don't think under the table signaling is kosher. If I was a spy in that game I would give you guys shit every time we played from now on.
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Pasi Ojala
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Btw, Oberon is not balance for Percival, Mordred is. Oberon is exactly the opposite, so in addition to greatly favoring the servants, you also signaled without disclosing that that kind of signalling might happen.
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Clyde W
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charlest wrote:
I don't think under the table signaling is kosher. If I was a spy in that game I would give you guys shit every time we played from now on.
But if everyone had been talking a really loudly and Percy leaned over close to Murry and said "I'm Percy" then it'd be okay, right?

Anyway, no Percy "revealing" to Murry isn't against the rules nor is it a bad idea. I'd definitely do it. But that's why Morgana exists, you know?
 
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Charlie Theel
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clydeiii wrote:
charlest wrote:
I don't think under the table signaling is kosher. If I was a spy in that game I would give you guys shit every time we played from now on.
But if everyone had been talking a really loudly and Percy leaned over close to Murry and said "I'm Percy" then it'd be okay, right?

Anyway, no Percy "revealing" to Murry isn't against the rules nor is it a bad idea. I'd definitely do it. But that's why Morgana exists, you know?


Sure, but then everyone at the table had a chance to hear/see it so observation skills come into play. No way someone could catch you if you're sitting next to Merlin.

If its ok to signal above the table, can I text another player with my phone?
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Adam Lucas
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Around here our cellphone infrastructure is so outdated that using it would be determental to your cause. If you're lucky the receiver would get your message that round. If you weren't then who knows what the receiver thinks then.

Personally, I think cellphones (if they worked) would be a gross advantage to the players using it. I say keep your signaling above the table so that everyone has a chance to pick up on it.
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Charlie Theel
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Svengaard wrote:
Around here our cellphone infrastructure is so outdated that using it would be determental to your cause. If you're lucky the receiver would get your message that round. If you weren't then who knows what the receiver thinks then.

Personally, I think cellphones (if they worked) would be a gross advantage to the players using it. I say keep your signaling above the table so that everyone has a chance to pick up on it.


I agree above the table only when we play.
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Jesse Chapman
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Everything you can do as Merlin (above the table, below, etc.) you can do as a Spy to confuse the others. For example, how about as a Spy you signal to a random Resistance member and out the other two spies and indicate that Merlin is a spy. I think that's a pretty deadly option.

Ways in which you signal (above table, below table, texting) is all based on what your group feels is fair. If everyone is on board with what the methods are, then anyone can use those same methods to abuse the system. No one is safe.
 
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Charlie Theel
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waitreally wrote:
Everything you can do as Merlin (above the table, below, etc.) you can do as a Spy to confuse the others. For example, how about as a Spy you signal to a random Resistance member and out the other two spies and indicate that Merlin is a spy. I think that's a pretty deadly option.

Ways in which you signal (above table, below table, texting) is all based on what your group feels is fair. If everyone is on board with what the methods are, then anyone can use those same methods to abuse the system. No one is safe.


Except no one would know who Merlin is but Percival, so him sitting next to Merlin and being able to secretly signal does make things fair. Unless you assume every single spy is going to signal to every single non-spy hoping they get Merlin.
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Krawhitham B
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I'd add my vote to the opinion of all of the communication being "visible". Sly hand signals (above the table) or coded wording is fine.

But as long as everyone playing is happy with what you did then that is ok, I'd just suggest having a chat about it.
 
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Simon Kamber
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Krawhitham wrote:
I'd add my vote to the opinion of all of the communication being "visible". Sly hand signals (above the table) or coded wording is fine.

But as long as everyone playing is happy with what you did then that is ok, I'd just suggest having a chat about it.


yeah. I think the main takeaway from these discussions is that the group should agree whether hidden communication is allowed. Both approaches have merit, but everyone should be playing the same game.
 
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Alejandro Magno
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My rules are. You can't stand up, you can't touch anybody, you can't reveal your card or describe the art on it. You can't use external devices (phones, piece of paper, whatever, all you have is your body and the pieces of the game)
Other than that, anything goes
 
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Simon Kamber
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Waterd wrote:
My rules are. You can't stand up, you can't touch anybody, you can't reveal your card or describe the art on it. You can't use external devices (phones, piece of paper, whatever, all you have is your body and the pieces of the game)
Other than that, anything goes


It is never really that simple. Most board gaming is subject to a whole range of expectations that are never explicitly mentioned.

Usually, this won't be a problem. Most of these expectations will never be considered controversial. I am pretty sure that the vast majority of Resistance playgroups operate on the assumption that under-the-table communication is not allowed, without ever having discussed it.
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Mark L
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Dulkal wrote:
I am pretty sure that the vast majority of Resistance playgroups operate on the assumption that under-the-table communication is not allowed, without ever having discussed it.

Exactly. I never even considered that it might be allowed until i saw it being discussed on BGG. And my first reaction was, "don't the rules forbid that?" And even though they don't, my feeling is that it's against the spirit of the game.

As far as I know, no-one I play with has ever attempted anything other than above-the-table public communication, and it's never been explicitly forbidden or even mentioned. I was really surprised that others don't feel that way.

So yeah, maybe the group should agree beforehand whether hidden communication is allowed or not.
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Mark Watson
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Merlin tried that in one of our games once. Would have been a lot more successful if she wasn't sat next to Mordred.

I wouldn't describe it as cheating as such. If you haven't got Morgana or Mordred out there then Merlin knows Percival is out there and Percival knows who he is, so the two should be able to follow each other without even needing under the table communication. It's actually more dangerous for Merlin, since two players who are working together and not spies can only be Merlin and Percival...
 
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Ryan Begerman
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When I explain the game, I just say anything goes except for revealing your cards. I seem to mostly play this game sitting on the floor, so everything is "above the table".

I don't see how secret communication is against the spirit of the game or cheating, it is just a different way to play that requires different responses from either side.

Clyde's group allows secret communication away from the table, but this doesn't actually give either side an advantage that I can see.

Merlin can't just get up from the table and call for a pow-pow in the kitchen because it will out him. If a non merlin servant goes to the kitchen first then a minion can go too. Merlin can't out the minion without outing himself. It evens out. It is up to the minions to make sure an all good guy get together doesn't happen in the kitchen spontaneously. If it does, you roll the die for who Merlin is and start the next game.

Under the table communication can go against you too. If Percival is in play and I know my group likes to communicate under the table I can easily start tapping on someones foot when I am a minion. If each minion does that to a different person you have a pretty good chance one of you is going to tap Merlin. Merlin then has to choose how to react to the tapping because he knows who the minions are. This game is all about mind games anyway.

If you don't want to play with that kind of communication then you just set the rules before hand.
 
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Jeffrey Drozek-Fitzwater
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I do all sorts of under the table signaling, but that's because I sit next to my wife.
 
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Jun Wei
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I had a silly situation in which my friend and I, being both minions, tried to hint other under the game to fail the mission. We ended up throwing out the fail card together. Didn't lose the game but it was hilarious how badly we 'fail' our below-the-table communication.

That much said, I still feel that below-the-table is not cool.
 
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Rob Rundle
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Archonsod wrote:
... two players who are working together and not spies can only be Merlin and Percival...


You might think that, but in our games two players team up and work together all the time - not the same two players, I mean all kinds of pairs of players - and their characters may vary between a couple of Loyal Servants, or Percival and a Loyal Servant, or Guinevere and Percival or any other combination - sometimes including Merlin, but often not. Even Good Lancelot got in on the teamup action recently - it was a great tactic for him as Blue won in three straight missions and there was no flip after m2.

Almost invariably, the spies assassinate one of any teamup pair, and are wrong.

It happens so often that it's almost worth remarking on when it doesn't happen - in fact that's usually when the good guys lose.
 
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