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Android: Netrunner» Forums » Strategy

Subject: When will deep red be worth the deck slot? rss

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Aaron Freeman
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This is something I have been grappling with hardcore since Mala Tempora. I really, really want to like Deep Red, but it is almost always overshadowed by Grimore or Spinal Modem.

Grimore buffs already amazing programs.

Spinal Modem ensures you can pretty much always make a single run a turn.

Deep Red saves you a click...? Sometimes...? And three memory in Caissa heavy decks.

Am I off my rocker? Or does this console need something else to boost it a bit. A missing Caissa? An event tied specifically to "setting up" caissa?
 
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Alejandro G.
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Already worth the slots IMO...
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R. Fetterkey
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I personally prefer Spinal Modem to Deep Red, even in a Caissa-heavy deck. However, Deep Red makes the deck much "trickier." Without Deep Red, you can install and host one Caissa prior to running; with it, you can install and host up to three. That's a substantial difference when it comes to breaking into secure-seeming remotes.
 
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Nushura
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There are many decks that use it already, so your question is already answered.

The most funny one is the Exile/Deep red/Scheherazade combo, where you install 2 pawns in the single piece of ICE (and have the third one in the trash). Once this is set up, you get to access the server, and in addition gain 2 credits and draw two cards...all with a single click! Only possible with the DR combo!

You can also combo it with some shaper magic to install an AI breaker on any piece of ice (or the equivalent of a parasite with 2 counters)...and all in the middle of the run!! How is this bad?

Can't wait Queen and King!!
 
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Dave Sutcliffe
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General Norris
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I think it's already great. Caïssa take a huge amount of memory and being able to put them instantly into play with Clone Chip or Self Modifying Code is huge.
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Andrew Keddie
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My Reina deck simply wouldn't function properly without Deep Red. It's worth the deck slot when you build your deck in a way that takes advantage of it.
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Hannes Sörensson
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Nushura wrote:
Can't wait Queen and King!!


Reina is the queen. Reina Roja means "Red Queen".
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Cedric Bertolini
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Hattes wrote:
Nushura wrote:
Can't wait Queen and King!!


Reina is the queen. Reina Roja means "Red Queen".


You don't know for sure whistle
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Andrew Keddie
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Alsciende wrote:
Hattes wrote:
Nushura wrote:
Can't wait Queen and King!!


Reina is the queen. Reina Roja means "Red Queen".


You don't know for sure whistle


I'm pretty sure either Lukas or Damon have mentioned somewhere that there won't be a King or Queen Caissa program.
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Michael Redston
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Maybe the King will also be an ID, e.g. Rey Rojo.
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Dave Sutcliffe
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If we're following Chess then King would be a terrible program that does very little but causes you to lose the game if the Corp trashes it.

Powerful.
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Roderick Easton
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Look at Deep Red. That glowing icon in the centre of it is the King icon. So Reina is the Queen and Deep Red is the King.

I'd argue that if the Corp trashes your deck, you have lost the game.

Back on topic.
Deep Red > Grimoire if you aren't using viruses.
Deep Red > Spinal Modem if you like your brain.
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Grant Cain
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Yeah, I'm on board with how great deep red is. Cheap and great for getting out caissas. Considering how the best way the corp can mess with the runner now (in my opinion) is taxing their clicks, it really helps to mitigate that and gives surprises to the runner breaking in suddenly.
 
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spags
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CommissarFeesh wrote:
Alsciende wrote:
Hattes wrote:
Nushura wrote:
Can't wait Queen and King!!


Reina is the queen. Reina Roja means "Red Queen".


You don't know for sure whistle


I'm pretty sure either Lukas or Damon have mentioned somewhere that there won't be a King or Queen Caissa program.


Right. I would say Reina's the Queen and Deep Red the King.
 
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Jeff Gum
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It'd be interesting to see where FFG would go, if we ever got more Ciassa programs. Maybe get programs for the Elephant and the Ship that move like Bishop/Rook respectively, but have different effects?
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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Tekkactus wrote:
It'd be interesting to see where FFG would go, if we ever got more Ciassa programs. Maybe get programs for the Elephant and the Ship that move like Bishop/Rook respectively, but have different effects?


Or maybe some rhythmomachy pieces
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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Tonbo_Karasu wrote:
Deep Red > Grimoire if you aren't using viruses.
Deep Red > Spinal Modem if you like your brain.


Deep Red < Grimoire if you aren't using Caïssa. Viruses Counters are a fringe benefit compared to the in-faction +2 MU.
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Andrew Keddie
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etherial wrote:
Tonbo_Karasu wrote:
Deep Red > Grimoire if you aren't using viruses.
Deep Red > Spinal Modem if you like your brain.


Deep Red < Grimoire if you aren't using Caïssa. Viruses Counters are a fringe benefit compared to the in-faction +2 MU.


I'd agree with that - Grimoire's +2 Mu is definitely useful even outside of Virus programs. What are you using though that needs so much MU if not a Virus or Caissa suite? (Genuine question, not trying to be contrary)

I think Spinal Modem is very nicely balanced; +1 MU and 2 recurring creds helps you keep the economic edge which is turn helps mitigate the drawback (just don't run if you're broke - or Link up).
 
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mathew rynich
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There is an entire Exile deck built around it.

Deep Red is important if you are using Knight. You can't instant install (with personal workshop, SMC, clone chip) Knight or any of the other Caissa programs without Deep Red. So if you are on using more than just 1 trick Caissa you kind of need it. It's amazing in a Caissa heavy deck how many clicks it saves you.

If you are using Caissa's and not Viruses I don't see how Grimoire is helping you at all.

If they are willing to destroy ice to get rid of your Caissas all the better. Caissas are cheap and that's alot easier than Parasiting/Datasucking that ice. You should have Deja Vu, Clone Chip to reocurring these programs anyway.
 
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Jesse M
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CommissarFeesh wrote:
My Reina deck simply wouldn't function properly without Deep Red. It's worth the deck slot when you build your deck in a way that takes advantage of it.


I've noticed this problem with people playing Reina decks. If they can't get their Deep Red console out early they spend so many clicks making expensive runs and lose the game.

If they get it out early, they have a much better shot of being competitive.

There needs to be some kind of hardware tutor like Hostage for decks that are dependent on Deep Red to have the consistency to be more competitive.
 
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Greg Nordeng
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These decks will be more viable with a hardware/console tutor I think. Something to ensure you can start getting value from Deep Red right away.
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CD Harris
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CommissarFeesh wrote:
Alsciende wrote:
Hattes wrote:
Nushura wrote:
Can't wait Queen and King!!


Reina is the queen. Reina Roja means "Red Queen".


You don't know for sure whistle


I'm pretty sure either Lukas or Damon have mentioned somewhere that there won't be a King or Queen Caissa program.


We specifically asked Damon during our GenCon interview if we could expect King and/or Queen. He was very friendly about refusing to say either way. If they've definitively said 'no' in some other forum, I missed it.
 
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Andrew Keddie
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jerklin wrote:
CommissarFeesh wrote:
My Reina deck simply wouldn't function properly without Deep Red. It's worth the deck slot when you build your deck in a way that takes advantage of it.


I've noticed this problem with people playing Reina decks. If they can't get their Deep Red console out early they spend so many clicks making expensive runs and lose the game.

If they get it out early, they have a much better shot of being competitive.

There needs to be some kind of hardware tutor like Hostage for decks that are dependent on Deep Red to have the consistency to be more competitive.


3x Deep red + draw cards is usually enough consistency for me.
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Ken Dilloo
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Yeah, way already worth a slot. You just have to rethink your builds with Reina/chess. Can't be stuck in the same old archetypes. I run 3 copies in my Reina chess deck, and I can win without it, but I am brutally efficient when I can get it out early.
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