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Keyflower: The Farmers» Forums » Rules

Subject: Keyflower: The Farmers Boat 5b rss

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Colin Marsh
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We had some confusion come up in our game around this boat. We consulted both the expansion and base rule books but neither seemed to directly address the edge case in question.

If a player has boat 5b which allows them to score wheat as any type of resource or the reverse, can they place these wheat on the Barn, Blacksmith, Stone yard or Timber yard tiles.

You could argue no because those tiles only score items that are on the tiles at the end of the game, not items behind the screen.

You could argue yes because wheat is not a transportable item and so it's everywhere as much as it is anywhere.

We ended up declaring that it could be counted and played on but I'm not certain we played it correctly.
 
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Ian Clévy
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I would say you can't.

You score more points with those tiles because you have to move the resources there. Scoring points for a resource you wouldn't have to move there just seems like a bad idea to me.
 
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Bryan Maxwell
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I'm not speaking from any position of authority here, so take this response with a grain of salt.

I would say no, that's not legal. Those resources have to be moved onto those buildings to score. The spatial challenge of getting that to happen is a big part of the game. I don't think this Farmers tile was meant to circumvent that challenge. Arguing that it's "everywhere as much as it's anywhere" is a logical leap that I'm not ready to make.

Someone may be able to find a ruling that permits this, but I find it very much against the spirit of the game.

That said, the right tiles coming up, one player getting them then getting enough wheat to win the game would probably be difficult to do (especially if the other players are paying attention the way they should be). I'm curious, what was the result in your game? Did the person who has this combo score a ridiculous amount of points from it? Would he have done so if the other players saw what he was up to?
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Colin Marsh
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I tend to agree with both of you but still think an official ruling here would be a nice for one main reason; this is the only case in Keyflower, base or expansion, where a non-transportable resource can be swapped for a transportable one.

There's already a boat that allows any resource to count as any resource but as far as I can recall, there has never been a boat that allowed keyples or skill tiles to count as resources. This boat breaks new ground in that way and because of this I feel there's at least some room for interpretation.

As for the tile leading to ridiculous numbers of points; the player in question did score several wheat tiles from this but that in itself to me doesn't indicate that the combo is illegal. After all if the said player had the Jeweler as a winter tile and converted all of his wheat into Gold that could similarly score a ridiculous number of points but clearly would be within the rules.

As for preventing someone from scoring this, in the Farmers variant, all Farmers tiles are in the game and thus there are several tiles which generate wheat. Our game also did not feature any way to get green meeples so completely blocking wheat would have been very difficult. The player was slowed down as many other players wanted wheat as well and his point total wasn't generated purely off of one tile.
 
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Jill Reid
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We had the exact same question in our last game. We decided not to allow it, but it would not have been game changing in our game. So few of the transport tiles came out that I had used most of the wheat for movement points during the game.
 
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Gabriele Pezzato
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Keep in mind that the rules of the base game explicitly forbid putting additional resources on the Barn, Blacksmith, Stone yard and Timber yard at the end of the game. You can only score resources that are already on those tiles by the end of the Winter season. In other words, I don't think that you can use wheat with those tiles.
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Sebastian Bleasdale
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colinmarsh wrote:
If a player has boat 5b which allows them to score wheat as any type of resource or the reverse, can they place these wheat on the Barn, Blacksmith, Stone yard or Timber yard tiles.
No - these tiles only count resources which were placed on them during the game. This does not include the wheat, which was being stored behind your player screen.

I hope that clears things up, and that you keep enjoying Keyflower.

Regards

Sebastian Bleasdale
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Colin Marsh
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Thanks very much for answering the question Sebastian. it's the ruling I expected but it's great to know for sure.
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Nick Case
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Then a second question about boat 5b, could wheat be considered as gold for end game scoring and get 1 vp / wheat token? If not this boat doesn't seem to achieve much unless I'm missing something.


Boat 5b. For game end scoring purposes,
wheat can be counted as any type of
resource and any type of resource can be counted as wheat.
 
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Sebastian Bleasdale
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Big Bad Lex wrote:
Then a second question about boat 5b, could wheat be considered as gold for end game scoring and get 1 vp / wheat token? If not this boat doesn't seem to achieve much unless I'm missing something.

Boat 5b. For game end scoring purposes,
wheat can be counted as any type of
resource and any type of resource can be counted as wheat.

If you have boat 5b, you can:

* Use wheat as gold, scoring 1VP per wheat token through standard end-of-game scoring
* Use the wheat as gold in the Jeweller, Watermill, Windmill, Monument, Mercer's Guild or Bakery, scoring VPs as appropriate to that building.
* Use any resource as wheat in the Bakery or Granary, scoring VPs as appropriate to that building.

I hope that this clears things up, and that you continue to enjoy Keyflower.

Regards

Sebastian Bleasdale
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