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Fief: France 1429» Forums » Rules

Subject: Noble capture... rss

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Aleksandar Licul
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Hi,
I would appreciate if someone better familiar with the game answers me this.

When Noble is captured, and the Noble "slot" is practically locked from a player; can a player that owns captured Noble assassinate that Noble himself/herself (it is not the point if this move is a best option)?


And another question, probably for Uwe, is related to the new Event Card showed on Kickstarter page; The Ambush!.
Is The Ambush! card susceptible to consequences-type cards (Justice) like Assassination is?
After all, a Noble is being kidnapped...

Thanks!
 
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Uhr78 wrote:
Hi,
I would appreciate if someone better familiar with the game answers me this.

When Noble is captured, and the Noble "slot" is practically locked from a player; can a player that owns captured Noble assassinate that Noble himself/herself (it is not the point if this move is a best option)?

Do you mean having your noble that is captured take the proverbial cyanide capsule?

-DK
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Sdric
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You can assassinate your own lord
via MURDER card*
or via a successful REVOLT.

But the best way is to play a SECRET PASSAGE card (3 in the game) to evade.

*I think you can declare that it is a suicide (Your lord sponsored his own murder) and therefore avoid JUSTICE.
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Aleksandar Licul
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Well yes, or arrange for his/her early retirement since he/she has just became a costly (ransom) burden.
Or Your ally can do it, maybe.

 
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Aleksandar Licul
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Thank You Sdric for clearing that out.

Now if only we get answer if The Ambush! can trigger Justice.
 
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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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Uhr78 wrote:
Hi,
I would appreciate if someone better familiar with the game answers me this.

When Noble is captured, and the Noble "slot" is practically locked from a player; can a player that owns captured Noble assassinate that Noble himself/herself (it is not the point if this move is a best option)?
No, if I rember correctly you can't commit suicide when captured in Fief. Think thematically : since suicide is a deadly sin, captured nobles typically preferred to rot for years in a cell and wait for a ransom than to rot in hell for eternity.

Edit: You can assassinate your captured noble, but that doesn't prevent the use of Justice card after... At least that's how I play it.
 
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Aleksandar Licul
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Roolz wrote:

No, if I rember correctly you can't commit suicide when captured in Fief. Think thematically : since suicide is a deadly sin, captured nobles typically preferred to rot for years in a cell and wait for a ransom than to rot in hell for eternity.

Well Murder is a sin also. I think using Assassination on Your captured Noble is a plausible move. both thematically as well as meta (since You can then play a new Noble).
 
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Jason Becker
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Yeah, but a murderer can go to confession, someone who commits suicide can not.
 
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Aleksandar Licul
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Tantive4 wrote:
Yeah, but a murderer can go to confession, someone who commits suicide can not.

Sure, but the action is Assassination, not a Suicide. So other related Noble, maybe a cousin, arranges Assassination of unfortunate captured relative.


Anyway in Fief You don't play Yourself, but some outside motivator.
 
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Kayla Eickert
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I have a rough version of the rules (as in, I was editing for grammar a while back, content is there). This situation isn't mentioned in the description of the card, the explanation of the "prisoner" circumstance, or in the FAQs. I will see if I can get a definitive answer from Uwe, if there is one.
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Aleksandar Licul
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keickert wrote:
I have a rough version of the rules (as in, I was editing for grammar a while back, content is there). This situation isn't mentioned in the description of the card, the explanation of the "prisoner" circumstance, or in the FAQs. I will see if I can get a definitive answer from Uwe, if there is one.

Great, thank You!
 
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Kayla Eickert
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No problem! I am very happy to be the liaison when Uwe can't pay attention to the forums. Also, I just like talking to people. Win - win.

So far he has said "Why not! I'll add it to the rules." I forgot to add the part about justice in my first email, so still waiting on whether this will apply.
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Aleksandar Licul
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So Uwe´s "Why not!" is answer to players being allowed to Assassinate their own Nobles, right?

Thank you once again!
 
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Sdric
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To have a complete answer :
In the rules of fief(1983), you can only murder an opponent lord.
In the rules of fief2(1989) and fief(2011), you can murder any lord.


Official rules form fief(2011):
The MURDER card is a SURPRISE card. You can play this card at any moment on any lord [...]. The targeted lord is instantly murdered.
[...]
The player who played the MURDER card has to chose which of his lord sponsored the murder. Place the ASSASSIN counter over that lord in order to remember this detail. The justice might catch him.


Even if this rule do not say if you can sponsor your own murder, as the ''sponsor'' needs to be declared after the killing finally I guess you can not sponsor your own murder.
To play the devil's advocate, what if it is your only lord ?
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Aleksandar Licul
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I guess it would be the same as assassinating other player´s last Noble. So if that would make player eliminated from game, You would by same account eliminate yourself. I guess if it is Your only Noble, You will be without one until you draw one to play. If it is possible to remain in game without Nobles in the game (which would be very limiting), that player would be without one until he/she draws one to play.
 
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Kayla Eickert
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From Uwe:

"I am changing the entire way the Murder card gets used. Now the target has a chance of escaping if he has a Secret Passage Card. The attempting murdered still gets marked with the Assassin Marker and Justice can catch up with him.

If you do this, you still need to mark one of your own family members with the Assassin Marker. "

So, just no "suicide". There's the answer! thumbsup
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Aleksandar Licul
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Can You use Secret Passage to avoid The Ambush?


 
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Kayla Eickert
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I have asked this question, just waiting on a reply! I will pass it on as soon as I have an answer.
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Thierry Mattray
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Actual rules (2011 edition) :
you can assassinate any lord, even one of yours, but it's an assassination, not a suicide (no suicide allowed in the game), so you have to sponsor the murder by another of your lords.
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Aleksandar Licul
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tontione wrote:
Actual rules (2011 edition) :
you can assassinate any lord, even one of yours, but it's an assassination, not a suicide (no suicide allowed in the game), so you have to sponsor the murder by another of your lords.

Thanks.
Though since You don't play any of the Nobles in game directly, but an unseen motivator; why wouldn't it be possible for You to Assassinate Your last Noble.
Is there real player elimination in this game? If so, one would eliminate himself/herself from it. And if there is no elimination, than I could see the rule saying that Assassination of own last Noble is not permitted.

I see Assassination of own Noble only viable when one has already 4 Nobles in play and a Noble got captured; player might have a Noble in hand (or hope to draw a Noble), so by Assassination he/she negates opponent advantage (captor demanding ransom, or just tactically blocking player since armies cannot move without Nobles, etc).
 
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Thierry Mattray
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Uhr78 wrote:

Though since You don't play any of the Nobles in game directly, but an unseen motivator; why wouldn't it be possible for You to Assassinate Your last Noble.
"you" don't exist in the game. "you" -as player - play a family.
An assassinate action in the game is when a character decides to kill ANOTHER character.
So if you have only 1 character left, he can't kill himself.



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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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Uhr78 wrote:
I see Assassination of own Noble only viable when one has already 4 Nobles in play and a Noble got captured; player might have a Noble in hand (or hope to draw a Noble), so by Assassination he/she negates opponent advantage (captor demanding ransom, or just tactically blocking player since armies cannot move without Nobles, etc).
This is a point of view. But (even in your example), having an assassination card is extremely useful to negociate with other players, block their troop's movement, or just get a revenge. To me, assassinating your own captured noble is typically not a smart move (there might be some cases where it's the best use of the card, but I can't remember having ever seen any).
 
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Sdric
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Example of smart move

You : a Bishop, a Earl, a Lord without title,a captured bishop
Your ally : a Duchess (spouse of your Earl), a Baron

Your enemy : A Cardinal, A Bishop/Earl and a Lady without title
His ally : A Cardinal/Earl, a Baron and a Lord without title

For the King election it is a tie 4 vs. 4
Your enemy will win the Pope election and the game

You kill your Bishop, win the vote for the bishop title now available and then win the King election and the game.
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Simone Ferrari
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sdric wrote:
Example of smart move

You : a Bishop, a Earl, a Lord without title,a captured bishop
Your ally : a Duchess (spouse of your Earl), a Baron

Your enemy : A Cardinal, A Bishop/Earl and a Lady without title
His ally : A Cardinal/Earl, a Baron and a Lord without title

For the King election it is a tie 4 vs. 4
Your enemy will win the Pope election and the game

You kill your Bishop, win the vote for the bishop title now available and then win the King election and the game.

Are you sure?

You need all the villages of the fief under someone's control and even if they are your enemy has 6 votes for the Cardinals, while you got 2 votes for the Bishop.
It's a very particular situation and I'd prefer to use the Assassin on the Pope.
As a reminder, Victory is determined at the Victory phase, not when someone reach the points.
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Kayla Eickert
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I finally heard back from Uwe. He says you can use the secret passage card to attempt to escape ambush.
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