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Subject: RSP Moderation - Conclusion rss

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Matthew M
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Drew1365 wrote:
No, no . . . start Yet Another Thread about moderation instead.

It's what all the cool kids are doing. shake

I'm one of the cool kids!

The Short Version

RSP will remain as it's been for a while now - largely unmoderated with special exceptions made for extraordinarily disruptive users.


The Long Version

I appreciate that folks enjoy the opportunity to discuss RSP topics with other BGG members. I also recognize that there are a large number of people who would like to see more moderating happen in RSP. However RSP discussion is obviously not the focus of BGG. RSP's main purpose is to act as a quarantine for these topics. As long as those topics are not spilling over into the rest of the site, RSP is doing its job.

As RSP is not central to BGG's mission, I intend to avoid any changes that drastically increases the amount of time it takes to maintain RSP. Years of experience has already shown me that moderating RSP to the same standard as the rest of the site would require such a drastic increase, so that option is right out.

That does not mean that more moderation isn't possible, but if it becomes necessary it will be more of a sledgehammer than a scalpel. One option, for example, would be to aggressively lock threads that generate too many complaints. An even more extreme measure might be banning problem users from posting in RSP entirely. The most extreme? Shutting the doors on RSP altogether.

But we aren't at the point of needing any of that right now as long as these recent flare ups are only that.

Feel free to geekmail me if you have any questions. I don't intend to follow this thread - I've spent enough time on this whole thing already.


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William Boykin
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Thanks Matt.

Darilian
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Eugene
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Octavian wrote:
One option, for example, would be to aggressively lock threads that generate too many complaints.
Complaints from whom, Octavian? Do red flags from RSP outsiders who don't get it carry the same weight as RSP regulars?
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Maybe the ones complaining should be given a time out. Because they're obviously take everything way too seriously and probably need to get out in the real world for awhile and get some fresh air.
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Boaty McBoatface
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COMPNOR wrote:
Maybe the ones complaining should be given a time out. Because they're obviously take everything way too seriously and probably need to get out in the real world for awhile and get some fresh air.
Ironic, as one of the main defenses was we don't have to act like RSP is the real world. So we are saying we want RSP to be more like the real world.
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Koldfoot wrote:
I was slightly surprised by some people's comments on the other thread, but mostly I was not surprised that the most vicious, passive-aggressive, button pushers made such a strong show of support for moderation.

Just leave already.

Go be a victim in FTL. You'll get a ton of thumbs in a self pity party.


Thanks for poisoning the well. One doesn't need to be passive-aggressive or a victim to dislike to current state of RSP.
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Walker
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fizzmore wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
I was slightly surprised by some people's comments on the other thread, but mostly I was not surprised that the most vicious, passive-aggressive, button pushers made such a strong show of support for moderation.

Just leave already.

Go be a victim in FTL. You'll get a ton of thumbs in a self pity party.


Thanks for poisoning the well. One doesn't need to be passive-aggressive or a victim to dislike to current state of RSP.

I, for one, welcome our new passive-agressive overlords.
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slatersteven wrote:
COMPNOR wrote:
Maybe the ones complaining should be given a time out. Because they're obviously take everything way too seriously and probably need to get out in the real world for awhile and get some fresh air.
Ironic, as one of the main defenses was we don't have to act like RSP is the real world. So we are saying we want RSP to be more like the real world.

Nonsense. I'm saying people who take RSP too seriously need to take a break, and the only way they're going to be able to do that is if they're banned since they can't exercise any self control. A forced intervention if you want.

I don't mind wallowing in the shit and so don't care if RSP degenerates into a bigger poo flinging contest than what I can see at the zoo. I've got my waders.
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Seth Iniguez
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garygarison wrote:
Octavian wrote:
One option, for example, would be to aggressively lock threads that generate too many complaints.
Complaints from whom, Octavian? Do red flags from RSP outsiders who don't get it carry the same weight as RSP regulars?

I suspect the part where he says, "Geekmail me if you have any questions. I don't intend to follow this thread" means that this thread is not a good place to ask him questions.
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Josh
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So Bartertown continues to run on pig shit?

Two men enter, one man leaves.
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Chris White
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Koldfoot wrote:
I was slightly surprised by some people's comments on the other thread, but mostly I was not surprised that the most vicious, passive-aggressive, button pushers made such a strong show of support for moderation.

Just leave already.

Go be a victim in FTL. You'll get a ton of thumbs in a self pity party.


For the record, as someone who (briefly) spoke up in favor of possibly more moderation in that other thread... I don't think I've ever pushed the red X (or at least not for anything besides maybe actual porn or format-breaking images, never for mere words). And I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.

You might want to check your assumptions here.

ETA: Damn, you locked the other thread before I got around to replying to Alaren! Oh well, I snooze I lose.
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Seth Brown
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Koldfoot wrote:

Go be a victim in FTL. You'll get a ton of thumbs in a self pity party.

Look, maybe I keep dying before my ship gets anywhere because I'm more used to RPGs and sci-fi roguelike is just too far outside my usual genre. There's no need to be mean about it.
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J J
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garygarison wrote:
Octavian wrote:
One option, for example, would be to aggressively lock threads that generate too many complaints.
Complaints from whom, Octavian? Do red flags from RSP outsiders who don't get it carry the same weight as RSP regulars?

I don't see why it matters if they are "regulars" or not. This isn't your own little boys club.

It should not matter who complains, merely what was complained about, and while I don't think I agree with his conclusions, or necessarily with what requires censure, I'm quite sure that Octavian considers each flagged post on its merits and context.
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Mike Stiles
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I guess the answer is behind door #2 then.
 
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Marc P
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Hey guys! Did I miss a thread?


That is some cold disdain in Octavian's sign-off there. "This whole matter is beneath me. Pray it doesn't trouble me again."

Though I see his point. We are a bunch of hopeless assholes; jerk-monkeys flinging ideological poo around, or perhaps making poo angels because we're bored.
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slowcorner wrote:
Hey guys! Did I miss a thread?


That is some cold disdain in Octavian's sign-off there. "This whole matter is beneath me. Pray it doesn't trouble me again."

Though I see his point. We are a bunch of hopeless assholes; jerk-monkeys flinging ideological poo around, or perhaps making poo angels because we're bored.

Speak for yourself asswipe... I, for one, am a hopeful asshole.
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JasonJ0 wrote:
garygarison wrote:
Octavian wrote:
One option, for example, would be to aggressively lock threads that generate too many complaints.
Complaints from whom, Octavian? Do red flags from RSP outsiders who don't get it carry the same weight as RSP regulars?

I don't see why it matters if they are "regulars" or not. This isn't your own little boys club.

It should not matter who complains, merely what was complained about, and while I don't think I agree with his conclusions, or necessarily with what requires censure, I'm quite sure that Octavian considers each flagged post on its merits and context.

I read that less as "us cool kids should get special benefits" and more as "random passerby that will only stick around for a thread or two, if that long, shouldn't get to ruin the fun of the whole sub-community." It's shocking how often we get people with zero involvement in this forum popping up to let us know that we don't meet their standards of conduct and it doesn't seem like an unreasonable position to think that those schmucks shouldn't get to overthrow the balance in a system where the actual participants are more or less happy with the ways things are.
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William Boykin
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The Message wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
garygarison wrote:
Octavian wrote:
One option, for example, would be to aggressively lock threads that generate too many complaints.
Complaints from whom, Octavian? Do red flags from RSP outsiders who don't get it carry the same weight as RSP regulars?

I don't see why it matters if they are "regulars" or not. This isn't your own little boys club.

It should not matter who complains, merely what was complained about, and while I don't think I agree with his conclusions, or necessarily with what requires censure, I'm quite sure that Octavian considers each flagged post on its merits and context.

I read that less as "us cool kids should get special benefits" and more as "random passerby that will only stick around for a thread or two, if that long, shouldn't get to ruin the fun of the whole sub-community." It's shocking how often we get people with zero involvement in this forum popping up to let us know that we don't meet their standards of conduct and it doesn't seem like an unreasonable position to think that those schmucks shouldn't get to overthrow the balance in a system where the actual participants are more or less happy with the ways things are.

A lot of those occasional posters are lurkers.

I don't know about you, but I get the odd geekmail every now and again from people want to ask me a question, but feel 'afraid' to do it in the main forums because of the vitriol that sometimes spews forth.

No, I'm not going to provide any examples. My geekmails are private- you can pull my toenails out and I won't reveal sources.

Darilian
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bjlillo wrote:
Darilian wrote:
A lot of those occasional posters are lurkers.

I don't know about you, but I get the odd geekmail every now and again from people want to ask me a question, but feel 'afraid' to do it in the main forums because of the vitriol that sometimes spews forth.

No, I'm not going to provide any examples. My geekmails are private- you can pull my toenails out and I won't reveal sources.

Darilian

The geekmails are one thing, but the walking up to me at BGG.con and telling me how much you love my posts, that's a little creepy. I had that happen to me 5 times over two BGG.cons.

Must be a lurker in the drinking thread. Otherwise, WTF?
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William Boykin
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bjlillo wrote:
Darilian wrote:
A lot of those occasional posters are lurkers.

I don't know about you, but I get the odd geekmail every now and again from people want to ask me a question, but feel 'afraid' to do it in the main forums because of the vitriol that sometimes spews forth.

No, I'm not going to provide any examples. My geekmails are private- you can pull my toenails out and I won't reveal sources.

Darilian

The geekmails are one thing, but the walking up to me at BGG.con and telling me how much you love my posts, that's a little creepy. I had that happen to me 5 times over two BGG.cons.

Good! That means that the bribery money was well spent.

OOPS! I mean....

You're so humble and witty, BJ, I'm surprised that you don't have more fans who love your work!

Darilian
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Clay
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Darilian wrote:
The Message wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
garygarison wrote:
Octavian wrote:
One option, for example, would be to aggressively lock threads that generate too many complaints.
Complaints from whom, Octavian? Do red flags from RSP outsiders who don't get it carry the same weight as RSP regulars?

I don't see why it matters if they are "regulars" or not. This isn't your own little boys club.

It should not matter who complains, merely what was complained about, and while I don't think I agree with his conclusions, or necessarily with what requires censure, I'm quite sure that Octavian considers each flagged post on its merits and context.

I read that less as "us cool kids should get special benefits" and more as "random passerby that will only stick around for a thread or two, if that long, shouldn't get to ruin the fun of the whole sub-community." It's shocking how often we get people with zero involvement in this forum popping up to let us know that we don't meet their standards of conduct and it doesn't seem like an unreasonable position to think that those schmucks shouldn't get to overthrow the balance in a system where the actual participants are more or less happy with the ways things are.

A lot of those occasional posters are lurkers.

I don't know about you, but I get the odd geekmail every now and again from people want to ask me a question, but feel 'afraid' to do it in the main forums because of the vitriol that sometimes spews forth.

No, I'm not going to provide any examples. My geekmails are private- you can pull my toenails out and I won't reveal sources.

Darilian

Lurkers are regulars, in a sense, so I wasn't really talking about them. We do have those that merely post infrequently, but we also get those people that get swept in on the tide of a thread sent from somewhere else on the site who stay for a couple of threads to insult people, feel indignant about basic questions and then run off yelling about how terrible this place is. I'd hate to imagine a world where those people get to dictate when a conversation we're having without them has crossed some line.

Even with lurkers though you have to consider the strangeness of letting someone influence the forced end of a discussion simply because they've been watching it unfold from a distance. I do think we should provide a welcoming environment for them, or at least an entertaining one, but at the same time it's hard to accept that they might have the same pull that posting regulars have (in a world where "pull" is even a meaningful concept in regards to RSP thread locking thresholds).
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J
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bjlillo wrote:


The geekmails are one thing, but the walking up to me at BGG.con and telling me how much you love my posts, that's a little creepy. I had that happen to me 5 times over two BGG.cons.
Yep, me too. Well, only twice. In both cases I didn't recognize the name or avatar. Super weird.

In case you guys are reading this, I meant super weird in the good way.
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The Message wrote:
[...] I'd hate to imagine a world where those people get to dictate when a conversation we're having without them has crossed some line. [...]
This is how the real world works, both on a large and a micro scale. You are almost certainly active in both sides - constraining people around you, and automatically accepting constraints because you are among other people.

RSP doesn't have to be nice, but it should be polite.

OTOH the latest set of discussions has sorely tempted me to join the dark side myself, despite my clearly not having the status "privileged insider, allowed to be rude and aggressive".

It might be fun to respond to a straw man from one of those fragile flowers with "you're a well-known liar and bigot", and pulling the whole bunch into one huge slanging match. Or entering discussions to ask people if their latest "synthetic argument" represents one of their "asshole personas" or their true personality.
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Greg Udvari
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Great to know common sense is prevailing. The quote below sums up what I wanted to say but couldn't quite put the words in the correct order. I support the new world order.

Quote:
We keep coming back to this idea that somehow political debate must, by definition, permit someone to use whatever language they want. But that's poppycock. I'd even go so far as to say that if you can't make your position plain without resorting to personal insult, attack, and vulgarity that you're the one with a problem. It is an intentionally selected tactic that draws people away from the substance and towards the form. I engage with lots of different people on politics in lots of different arenas and there is never a need to call someone a "fucking moron."
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Michael Tagge
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The Message wrote:
Lurkers are regulars, in a sense, so I wasn't really talking about them. We do have those that merely post infrequently
As one of those "infrequent" posters, I only drop by RSP when it is slow at work, which can leave me out of RSP for weeks at a time.

In that vein can someone geekmail me with info on WTF this is about? Was there an thread to read to figure out what if anything has changed?
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