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Subject: Please help me decide between Caverna and Russian Railroads rss

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Raymond Fontaine
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These two games are on my radar, but the price for both is not.
I own Agricola, and love it, although, I only prefer to play with Farmers of the Moor when I do play.
I've heard a lot of good things about Caverna, and watched the Dice Tower review as well as Rhandos run through. It sounded good either way.
I've heard a lot of good things about Russian Railroads, and, although the theme seems uninteresting, it looks like a lot of fun and strategy.
I'm looking for long term gameplay, something that is still fun even though you've played it a dozen times or so.
Also, I just read a review of Snowdonia, and that sounded good.
Please advise on your thoughts for these games. Thanks.
 
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Kevin Garnica
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I know I won't be much help, but...

I have and really enjoy Russian Railroads. However, I haven't played either of the others. But I really want to and will probably end up owning them just the same.
 
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Chris
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Can't imagine Caverna is worth thinking about if you already have an expanded Agricola.
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Eddy Sterckx
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Caverna seems a bit like a same-same game if you're already playing Agricola + Farmers o/t Moor, while Russian Railroads is a totally different experience. RR is a game that will shoot up in the rankings because it's a really good WP game with multiple avenues to victory.
Snowdonia : we got the demo at Spiel and weren't impressed. There's nothing wrong with it, but it was a bit of a meh experience - YMMV
 
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Shane Larsen
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You already have Agricola.

Diversify.

Get RR if it's a choice between the two. Keep in mind, I've never played Caverna or RR.

Snowdonia is fantastic. My first play was a little rough, and I wasn't sure I was going to keep it. It only took one more play for me to start to see the beauty in it. It's fantastic, and a ton of fun as a solo game too--way better than Agricola, IMO.
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Chris
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thedacker wrote:
You already have Agricola.

Diversify.

Get RR if it's a choice between the two. Keep in mind, I've never played Caverna or RR.

Snowdonia is fantastic. My first play was a little rough, and I wasn't sure I was going to keep it. It only took one more play for me to start to see the beauty in it. It's fantastic, and a ton of fun as a solo game too--way better than Agricola, IMO.
I'm really tempted by Snowdonia. As a game I'd not really heard of as a usual suspect, it looks great and really intriguing.
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Geo
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Russian Railroads is a very good game and since you already own Agricola, get this.

I haven't played Snowdonia but a few friends who have, did not like it.
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Pieter
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Remember what Tom Vasel said: "Agricola is one of my favorite games. Now I have Caverna, Agricola gets thrown out."

Translation: you do not need both. Unless you are so incredibly enthusiastic about Agricola that the thought of getting a slightly better version wets your pants, just skip Caverna. Besides, my own thought about Caverna is that it is a WORSE version of Agricola. It is much less competitive. Tom Vasel is one of those people who likes his games with lots of fluff and not too cut-throat, so for him Caverna is the better choice. It is not necessarily the same for you.
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Chris
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GeoMan wrote:
I haven't played Snowdonia but a few friends who have, did not like it.
Any idea why?
 
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Paul Agapow
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Mostly what Pieter just said, but put in a slightly different way:

Caverna recognisably has Agricola's DNA, its look and feel and style and is similar but I wouldn't say they were the same game or just minor variations of each other, more games in the same family, much like 18XX titles. Caverna is a bit more relaxed, forgiving and (the forbidden word) "fun" game. If that's the way you'd prefer your Agricola games to be - then pick Caverna. If that's not what you like in your Agricola, there's no need for you to pick it up.

RR and Snowdonia have both proved modestly popular around here, but I haven't met any raving fans of either. Take that for what it's worth.
 
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Scot Duvall
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I beg to differ. I love Snowdonia, a nice twist on worker placement. You actually feel as if you are forging your way through the mountain to build a railroad. And there is the added aspect of contract fulfillment and the weather aspect, which can make some actions unavailable in a given round (and you know ahead of time so you can plan for it). I recommend Rahdo's run through and that is what sold me on the game. It does not disappoint.
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Chris
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ScottNotSteve wrote:
I beg to differ. I love Snowdonia, a nice twist on worker placement. You actually feel as if you are forging your way through the mountain to build a railroad. And there is the added aspect of contract fulfillment and the weather aspect, which can make some actions unavailable in a given round (and you know ahead of time so you can plan for it). I recommend Rahdo's run through and that is what sold me on the game. It does not disappoint.
Whilst it's obviously not the biggest part, it was the weather forecast mechanic that really made me want it. Just seems so thought out and clever. I'm slightly aware of the potential similarity to Fresco with the picking the actions you want to define turn order, but I doubt that really matters in the slightest.
 
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George Decker
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Depends on which one you can find. A lot of places are out of stock on both of them.
 
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Raymond Fontaine
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I appreciate the thoughts. I don't think I need a simpler version of Agricola. I'm leaning toward RR, but still need to watch the run down on Snowdonia to make a final decision.
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Kendahl Johnson
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Dr Strangegame74 wrote:
I appreciate the thoughts. I don't think I need a simpler version of Agricola. I'm leaning toward RR, but still need to watch the run down on Snowdonia to make a final decision.

I imagine I'd like Snowdonia, but I love RR. It's such a great worker placement game. I don't think that you'll regret buying it. I think you'll enjoy playing it. I think you'll be able to play many times without getting bored. I think you'll be able to easily find people willing to play. Those things all add up to a worthy purchase, imo.
 
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Chris
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Dr Strangegame74 wrote:
I appreciate the thoughts. I don't think I need a simpler version of Agricola. I'm leaning toward RR, but still need to watch the run down on Snowdonia to make a final decision.
I've not heard Caverna being called "simpler", more free and less drudgery with not having to feed your family doesn't make it necessarily simpler. That's All Creatures Big And Small's place.
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Hardy
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I think you should have a look at Myrmes
 
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Shane Larsen
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outlier wrote:
RR and Snowdonia have both proved modestly popular around here, but I haven't met any raving fans of either.

I'm a raving fan of Snowdonia. Nice to meet you.

HERE are a bunch more that have great things to say about it. And HERE are 92 other BGG users that have clicked "Fan" on its page.

You don't have to look far for fandom on BGG, if that's what you are basing your decision on. I recommend you don't.

Instead, watch and read some reviews. Decide what you think for yourself. I love it because it feels unique and challenging in a different way than any other WP game I know of. Aside from that, it has beautiful artwork, an interesting theme, and several fresh ways to implement variability from game to game. Add to that, it's my favorite true Euro game to play solo, and you've got yourself a raving fan.

Start with this video review from Rahdo. Tell me if you think he's a fan:

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J T
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
Dr Strangegame74 wrote:
I appreciate the thoughts. I don't think I need a simpler version of Agricola. I'm leaning toward RR, but still need to watch the run down on Snowdonia to make a final decision.
I've not heard Caverna being called "simpler", more free and less drudgery with not having to feed your family doesn't make it necessarily simpler. That's All Creatures Big And Small's place.

I haven't gotten my hands on a copy of Caverna yet, and I find myself excited by the prospect of less drudgery by feeding, but concerned that the freedom will equate to a lack of interaction via conflict, which can lead to head-down, not-talking gameplay.
 
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Kendahl Johnson
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Neuronaut wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
Dr Strangegame74 wrote:
I appreciate the thoughts. I don't think I need a simpler version of Agricola. I'm leaning toward RR, but still need to watch the run down on Snowdonia to make a final decision.
I've not heard Caverna being called "simpler", more free and less drudgery with not having to feed your family doesn't make it necessarily simpler. That's All Creatures Big And Small's place.

I haven't gotten my hands on a copy of Caverna yet, and I find myself excited by the prospect of less drudgery by feeding, but concerned that the freedom will equate to a lack of interaction via conflict, which can lead to head-down, not-talking gameplay.

It's not one of your choices, but if you're looking for a really good worker placement game that hasn't been listed here that has some interactive elements beyond just dropping workers and taking the action, you should check out Lancaster. One phase is devoted to voting on laws that give bonuses. So much intrigue... The other difference is that you can displace someone's worker with a worker that is ranked higher.
 
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Raymond Fontaine
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Thanks Shane for that detailed info and the links. Thanks Colm for the suggestion also. I do want a "change", I guess. The weather element in Snowdonia does sound like a nice change of design.
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Raymond Fontaine
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In Snowdonia, the only thing, however (I'm just going off of what some others said in reviews) is that, if the weather is not favorable, it can turn into alot of down time, or, non-actions. Does that seem to be a problem?
I will probably be playing with 4 usually, 3 at other times.
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Shane Larsen
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Dr Strangegame74 wrote:
In Snowdonia, the only thing, however (I'm just going off of what some others said in reviews) is that, if the weather is not favorable, it can turn into alot of down time, or, non-actions. Does that seem to be a problem?
I will probably be playing with 4 usually, 3 at other times.
I've never seen it as a problem. I've seen it as a challenge, or a bad streak of weather the line builders had to deal with, which is very thematic for me.

Each game tells a little different story, yes. Sometimes weather is grand, the building flies by, and the rail line goes to the summit in a mad rush. Other times, the fog slows things down, production is less efficient, and it becomes a struggle to get to the summit. No matter how the weather works out, one thing is always for sure: There will be one player who outplays the others, and that player had the same conditions as the rest of the players.

But...just in case you don't like the possibility of a game slowing down a bit because of bad weather, the designer (who is very active and responsive here because this game is "his baby") has already proposed a variant:



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Raymond Fontaine
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That is "great" to know. Thanks again. Now its time to watch the video!
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