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Sentinels of the Multiverse: Vengeance» Forums » General

Subject: Not a Stand-Alone game rss

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As the title says, this expansion is NOT a stand-alone game. Even though it comes with enough heroes for 5 players, the box does neither contain a full rulebook (only rules addition) nor HP counters/status markers.

If you look at the game description you will think "of course! What made you think that?". Well, this is what the CURRENT description says...but the old one said "stand-alone" (you can verify that in Google's cache).

When this expansion was announced, it was originally a stand-alone expansion (in the Kickstarter they say that the expansion can be played on its own). My guess is that they removed the extra components to save production costs. Buying it now would not be a problem (since it is announced as a Mega-expansion), but it can be a problem for those that backed the KS planning to get into the game with only this expansion.
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brian
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drstein2004 wrote:
As the title says, this expansion is NOT a stand-alone game. Even though it comes with enough heroes for 5 players, the box does neither contain a full rulebook (only rules addition) nor HP counters/status markers.

If you look at the game description you will think "of course! What made you think that?". Well, this is what the CURRENT description says...but the old one said "stand-alone" (you can verify that in Google's cache).

When this expansion was announced, it was originally a stand-alone expansion (in the Kickstarter they say that the expansion can be played on its own). My guess is that they removed the extra components to save production costs. Buying it now would not be a problem (since it is announced as a Mega-expansion), but it can be a problem for those that backed the KS planning to get into the game with only this expansion.
I disagree. To a certain extent. All that is missing is the rules. Which can easily be downloaded.

The counters aren't necessary and were in fact introduced later. The original owners of the game had to track life points on their own with dice or custom made trackers.

So it really is stand alone since it has enough heroes to play the game as designed (as opposed to the other expansions that only have 2 heroes and are technically unplayable). They did themselves a disservice by not including full rules or at least draw attention to the fact the rules can be downloaded.

But I don't think that changes the fact it is standalone.
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MGS
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There are no tokens in the first edition and it still is a standalone game.
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Josh
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As I out in my review while it's technically stand alone, it's a terrible place to start. The heroes are complex, there is only one villain setup, and no tokens as well. Ruleswise the book has all you need. There just aren't a lot of rules to this game. It's probably missing a good glossary, but the actual rulebook was missing some of that too.

I wouldn't recommend anyone get it without having the base game, or at least a couple expansions.
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Nerds call me
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It's a stand-alone game, just a poorly designed one for the reasons people have already touched on.
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it also has no longer been referred to as a stand alone game by >G for quite a while. it may have originally been so, but they have updated their stance since then and only ever call it a 'mega expansion'
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Indeed you CAN play with this expansion alone, the same way you can play with Dixit 2..or well, the same way that you can play Love Letter with a poker deck. My point in any case was different.

lynkfox wrote:
it also has no longer been referred to as a stand alone game by >G for quite a while. it may have originally been so, but they have updated their stance since then and only ever call it a 'mega expansion'
That was exactly my point. I backed it on KS because they said it would be Stand-alone. I understand they moved away from it, but at least they should have warned backers.

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As said, the game has been "re-classified" as a Mega-Expansion.

I guess you can play it on its own, just the same way you can put together 2 regular expansions and play them without the base set.

But without a proper set of rules, tracker tokens, etc. the game isn't really meant to be purchased as a stand-alone game.

I think the overall opinion is "it can, but I wouldn't recommend it."
 
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brian
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BreadRising wrote:
I think the overall opinion is "it can, but I wouldn't recommend it."
No, I don't think that is the overall opinion. Perhaps if you said, "It can, but not recommended for brand new players" than I would probably agree. But playing this all on its own is thoroughly recommended.

As mentioned the rules can be downloaded. And the extra chits were added to the game later. Unless you want to classify the original as not a stand alone as well.

But if >G reclassified it, little point in debating it.
 
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
BreadRising wrote:
I think the overall opinion is "it can, but I wouldn't recommend it."
No, I don't think that is the overall opinion. Perhaps if you said, "It can, but not recommended for brand new players" than I would probably agree. But playing this all on its own is thoroughly recommended.

As mentioned the rules can be downloaded. And the extra chits were added to the game later. Unless you want to classify the original as not a stand alone as well.

But if >G reclassified it, little point in debating it.

Why would someone who isn't a brand new player own only Vengeance? I'm pretty sure the initial question was regarding whether a complete newcomer could buy Vengeance and only Vengeance and get the full Sentinels experience and the answer should be an overwhelming "No, you should probably own the original."

Have you played Vengeance yet? I've been playing it for almost a week now since my preorder came, and that is a lot of new information to process. Even playing against 3 of the V5 and only using one or two new heroes, I had to read everything extremely carefully, get used to the alternating hero/villain turns, and even then there was still plenty to miss. Vengeance is a blast, but it is a hectic experience that I just couldn't see a player who has never played a game of Sentinels understanding.

If >G intended Vengeance to be a stand-alone at one point, they clearly changed their minds and with good reason. It'd be like taking a newcomer and saying "Okay, for your first game, you're going to control Nightmist and Absolute Zero; we're playing in Rook City against the Matriarch. Oh and I know you've only just read the rulebook, but why don't you keep track of everything, okay? Sorry, I don't have tokens for you. Use this pen and paper."

If someone who has played a butt ton of Sentinels (yet doesn't own the game for some reason) wants to go out and buy only Vengeance and use only the Vengeance additions for a game, then sure, by all means go for it. In fact, I look forward to playing an "All Vengeance" game with the V5 and all five new heroes once I'm more experienced with how the game functions. But if someone said to me, "Hey, I've been meaning to try out Sentinels and I see that Vengeance is out; can I buy that as a stand alone game?" I would grab them by the shoulders and turn them towards the Enhanced Edition and tell them to come back for Vengeance in a few weeks.
 
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BreadRising wrote:
Why would someone who isn't a brand new player own only Vengeance? I'm pretty sure the initial question was regarding whether a complete newcomer could buy Vengeance and only Vengeance and get the full Sentinels experience and the answer should be an overwhelming "No, you should probably own the original."
You may be pretty sure that was the intent but I do not see it as such. It is quite possible people have played it without owning it (I was at that point when I jumped on Enhanced's KS) and may have decided now is the time to get into it.

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Have you played Vengeance yet?
Yes I have. And when I have played (or currently playing in PBF 29), I have used nothing BUT Vengeance.

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I've been playing it for almost a week now since my preorder came, and that is a lot of new information to process. Even playing against 3 of the V5 and only using one or two new heroes, I had to read everything extremely carefully, get used to the alternating hero/villain turns, and even then there was still plenty to miss. Vengeance is a blast, but it is a hectic experience that I just couldn't see a player who has never played a game of Sentinels understanding.
Yeah, there is new content. But so was all the other expansions. Nightmist and especially Argent Adept were things that took some time to figure out. Or the way Dreamer works as a Villain. I don't think Vengeance is that much more difficult. It's new, you should read everything carefully. When we play we each control one Villain. It takes some getting used to but not insurmountable. Someone who has played games before could pick it up, even if they are new to Sentinels. But I already agreed with you that I wouldn't recommend it for brand new players.

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If >G intended Vengeance to be a stand-alone at one point, they clearly changed their minds and with good reason.
I suspect it had to do more with costs of publishing a more complete rulebook and tokens than any difficulty with the expansion.

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It'd be like taking a newcomer and saying "Okay, for your first game, you're going to control Nightmist and Absolute Zero; we're playing in Rook City against the Matriarch. Oh and I know you've only just read the rulebook, but why don't you keep track of everything, okay? Sorry, I don't have tokens for you. Use this pen and paper."
Which is kind of like them saying "Okay, here is this brand new game, learn to play it, you have to keep track of everything. Sorry no tokens, I am sure you have some dice laying around or you can print these trackers we put up on our website." In other words, first edition....

Quote:
If someone who has played a butt ton of Sentinels (yet doesn't own the game for some reason) wants to go out and buy only Vengeance and use only the Vengeance additions for a game, then sure, by all means go for it. In fact, I look forward to playing an "All Vengeance" game with the V5 and all five new heroes once I'm more experienced with how the game functions.
Which is what I said. We dove right in on the all-Vengeance thing for PBF. In my face-to-face games, everyone wants to try the new stuff first. We aren't easing into anything and it has been just fine (besides the butt-whooping we sometimes get).

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But if someone said to me, "Hey, I've been meaning to try out Sentinels and I see that Vengeance is out; can I buy that as a stand alone game?" I would grab them by the shoulders and turn them towards the Enhanced Edition and tell them to come back for Vengeance in a few weeks.
Which is what I agreed with of your statement.....
 
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I am constantly surprised by this topic. Its like because someone made a mistake and once called it a Stand Alone game (which has been very well clarified from now on that it is NOT) its the end of the world, or at the very least a good reason to get upset at >G for 'misleading' supposed newbies.

Considering that everywhere I've ever seen this game sold, with actual people, they always say to get the Enhanced Edition first, if just for the tokens and the more heroes/options.

Sure someone might make a mistake and buy vengeance first, probably come on here and complain or on the >G forums and toss a few whineys out, but ... theyll just be quickly told to get the EE and either a) they will and be a long time enjoyment of the game or b) they wont and... we'll never know nor hear from them ever again.

I'm as much a fanboy of SoTM as anyone here, but I'm not sure why this is such a big issue for some people that they have to bring it up so often and , from my point of view, complain that the marketing by a 3 man company wasn't absolute perfect...
 
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