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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Wildlander's Nimble and large monster rss

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George Mantziaris
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If a large monster moves into a space not adjacent to the Wildlander and expands to attack him, is the Wildlander able to use Nimble to move away?
 
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Chris Byer
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Without seeing the text on Nimble I can't say for sure. There was another thread recently that dealt with a similar question. Large monsters are considered to only be occupying a single space while moving and end their movement on that space and then expand from that spot.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Nope. When large monsters expand, they are not considered to be entering the spaces that they expand into.
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George Mantziaris
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Nimble reads:

Each time a monster moves into a space adjacent to you, you may use this card to move 1 space; then the monster may continue its activation.

 
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George Mantziaris
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Dexter345 wrote:
Nope. When large monsters expand, they are not considered to be entering the spaces that they expand into.


Thanks a lot. Actually, I think this question has been asked again but I needed a confirmation immediately and I couldn't find it by searching
 
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Travis West
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Something of note, if that large monster is "interrupting" it's movement to attack the wildlander with nimble, it must be able to declare the attack from the space it currently occupies (the one space it "shrunk" down to). I believe it was Justin who clarified this for us. This is different if the monster ends its move action, expands, and then declares an attack. In the first case, the monster still has movement points left to spend, and must be able to legally declare the attack from the space it currently occupies. In the second case, the monster has ended its entire move action and thus expanded, and can declare an attack from any of the spaces it now occupies.

Example:
M = Monster w/ Speed 4, Melee attack, and no reach
W = Wildlander


1. Activate Monster.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
| | | | | | | | | |
| M | M | | | | W | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|
| | | | | | | | | |
| M | M | | | | | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|

2. Monster Declares Move Action, shrinks to one space.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
| | | | | | | | | |
| | M | | | | W | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|

3. Monster moves 3 spaces forward.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
| | | | | | | | | |
| | M | 1 | 2 | 3 | W | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | M | W | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|

4. Nimble Triggers, and the Wildlander uses it.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | M | | W | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|

5. Monster Resumes move action, moves 1 space.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | M | W | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|

6. Nimble Triggers again, and the Wildlander uses it again.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | M | | W | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|

7. Monster's move action ends and he expands forward.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | M | M | W | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | M | M | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|

8. Because expanding doesn't count as entering a space, Nimble does not trigger, and the Monster can make a Melee attack against the Wildlander.


Previously, the Monster could have stopped 2 spaces into his move action in Step 3, declare an attack action, expand (meaning that Nimble wouldn't trigger in the wildlander's case), making an attack against the hero and still have two movement points left. Now, because large monsters have to be able to "legally declare" the action they are going to make from the "single space" that they occupy, they are forced to spend that extra movement point or two.
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Jeremy N
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In response to Travis ^^^^^^^

There is one exception to this rule:

FFG Sez wrote:
If the movement of a large monster is interrupted (e.g: with caltrops) and there is no space to "expand" it, how do you proceed?

You cannot interrupt large monster movement in a space in which it cannot expand.


Like caltrops, Nimble creates issues, in that you could potentially move toward the monster in a 2-space hallway.


I could see a situation where a large monster intends to move past you, passing through a 1-space area (say, between an obstacle), and you move backward, preventing the monster from executing its move as intended and putting it into an illegal expansion position, undoing its turn (at which case it's a paradox as to whether you originally should've been able to move).
 
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Chase Toffee
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Quote:
If a large monster moves into a space not adjacent to the Wildlander and expands to attack him, is the Wildlander able to use Nimble to move away?


You cant expand to attack, so to speak. You can only declare an attack as an interrupt while moving, from the space where the monster is "shrunken"


Edit: after reading all the posts : D Just read what Asceric said
 
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Travis West
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jnad83 wrote:
I could see a situation where a large monster intends to move past you, passing through a 1-space area (say, between an obstacle), and you move backward, preventing the monster from executing its move as intended and putting it into an illegal expansion position, undoing its turn (at which case it's a paradox as to whether you originally should've been able to move).


That's an interesting situation. Would this simply make that series of actions then, illegal for the OL to perform? Because, if it would force the rewind like you say, the Wildlander would always have fatigue to spend to prevent this.
 
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Jeff

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Asceric wrote:
jnad83 wrote:
I could see a situation where a large monster intends to move past you, passing through a 1-space area (say, between an obstacle), and you move backward, preventing the monster from executing its move as intended and putting it into an illegal expansion position, undoing its turn (at which case it's a paradox as to whether you originally should've been able to move).


That's an interesting situation. Would this simply make that series of actions then, illegal for the OL to perform? Because, if it would force the rewind like you say, the Wildlander would always have fatigue to spend to prevent this.


I'm almost certain the ruling on this would be that the monster then expands to the nearest possible space.
 
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Damien M
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Caerus wrote:
Asceric wrote:
jnad83 wrote:
I could see a situation where a large monster intends to move past you, passing through a 1-space area (say, between an obstacle), and you move backward, preventing the monster from executing its move as intended and putting it into an illegal expansion position, undoing its turn (at which case it's a paradox as to whether you originally should've been able to move).


That's an interesting situation. Would this simply make that series of actions then, illegal for the OL to perform? Because, if it would force the rewind like you say, the Wildlander would always have fatigue to spend to prevent this.


I'm almost certain the ruling on this would be that the monster then expands to the nearest possible space.


There is a ruling on this. A Large Monster must be able to expand in it's current position, otherwise you cannot use Nimble.

You should never enter a paradoxical situation, because if the large monster does expand and it's intended final destination is not available, then it must then just stop it's movement there or continue moving somewhere else. Remember you take movements one at a time, and not a big long string of commands. This isn't RoboRally

Example:
M=monster
B=obstacle (impassable terrain)
W=Wildlander


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
| | | | | | | | |
| M | M | | B | W | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|
| | | | | | | | |
| M | M | | | | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|


Monster uses a move action for 4 movement points


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
| | | | | | | | |
| | M | | B | W | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|
| | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|



_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
| | | | | | | | |
| | M | 1 | B | W | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|
| | | | | | | | |
| | | | 2 | | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|


Monster enters this space, and wildlander wants to interrupt using nimble, but he cannot because the large monster cannot expand from this position. Monster continues moving.


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
| | | | | | | | |
| | | | B | W | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|
| | | | | | | | |
| | | | M | 3 | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|


Wildlander still cannot use nimble, because the monster cannot expand from this spot. Monster contines moving.


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
| | | | | | | | |
| | | | B | W | | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|
| | | | | | | | |
| | | | | M | 4 | | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|


Wildlander may now use Nimble, because the monster can expand from this new position. Wildlander spends a fatigue and uses nimble to jump away.


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
| | | | | | | | |
| | | | B | | M | M | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|
| | | | | | | | |
| | | | W | | M | M | |
|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|_ _ _|



 
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