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Android: Netrunner» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Competing against NBN never advance rss

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Shane Ruman
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My friend plays a strong NBN never advance deck and it's pretty tough to handle. So far, the main things I've come up are hitting R & D hard (seems like a general strategy these days) and credit denial. R & D isn't that hard to ice up and NBN doesn't really need that may credits for pure never advance. I thought about maybe a milling based deck but Jackson can pull a good many of them back. There's Chakana but that seems overly specialized ( I think NR needs a side board . How do people combat never advance these days given it's so strong in the meta?
 
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Ken Dilloo
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The Ginger Ninja
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Infiltration? Whizzard/Scrubber?
 
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Steve Houston
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I think NBN has two things that make them tough to beat in the current meta. These things, however, can be countered.

1.) They have cheap-to-rez trace ice (Caduceus, Draco especially).

Solution in the current meta: run link, and linky runners. If you get some early link out, NBN will have to start paying their own real money to boost traces, and NBN does not like that.

2.) San San City Grid. This must-trash card costs 5 to trash. We need something to soften that blow. Additionally, NBN is usually running Marked Accounts which is also hell on Runner econ. Luckily you've got some cards to help!

-Desperado
-Whizzard
-Scrubber
-Imp
-Singularity (soon)

Indirectly:
-Keyhole

Once you have some semblance of a rig, NBN ice usually isn't too hard to get through. Magnum Opus will usually let you make a run and take 6 credits each turn. And of course recover after trashing their San Sans.
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Beyer
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wiley15 wrote:
.. How do people combat never advance these days given it's so strong in the meta?
With recurring account siphons/vamps as far as I know.
 
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dan dargenio
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As someone who plays a whole lot of never advance, the single best strategy is to float tags and play magnum opus. Most people have moved away from PSF in favor of character assn. If your friend is playing PSF, floating tags becomes less palatable, but magnum opus is still the single best card against long-game NBN decks. It affords you the ability to trash everything and cannot be disrupted by tags.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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NBN NA is strong in your meta? Haven't see it in ages, I don't even know how that deck looks like now - Snare / Edge of World? I see a lot of NBN FA/Power Shutdown/Jackson with burst economy.

I suppose that best counter for any shell game is just to expose, probably with Infiltrates, maybe even recycled using Same Old Thing. Or, you know, just prepare and run. Hitting Edge of World once is ok, hitting Snare usually have small impact (just one round slowdown).
 
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Michael Redston
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Reading the replies made me happy my NBN FA has complete event-based economy.
 
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Lluluien
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kroen wrote:
Reading the replies made me happy my NBN FA has complete event-based economy.

There are things that econ assets in Never Advance can do that your events can't do though. For the trade-off of being trashable, they serve a lot of other functions that aren't related to gaining you credits.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that understanding that is key in playing a competitive NBN FA deck as well, because that deck still typically includes 6 assets and a similar agenda composition, so there's opportunities to take advantage of the same strategies as are used in Never Advance, and if you don't you're sacrificing a big alternative benefit you get from having Jackson and SanSan in the deck.
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Lluluien
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mediohxcore wrote:
As someone who plays a whole lot of never advance, the single best strategy is to float tags and play magnum opus. Most people have moved away from PSF in favor of character assn. If your friend is playing PSF, floating tags becomes less palatable, but magnum opus is still the single best card against long-game NBN decks. It affords you the ability to trash everything and cannot be disrupted by tags.


Magnum Opus is definitely the #1 answer in my eyes as it makes it very difficult to maintain a sufficient drain on the Runner. In general at the end game, the Runner only has to generate credits to attack one server in the long game; it can attack either the remote server or R&D, but the Corp has to be able to protect both to establish the drain it needs for an open turn to score. Having tags on the Runner can't stop this economy, either, other than having to watch out for letting the Corp get too big of a remote rezzed and then having Closed Accounts dropped on you.

The other piece to this is to make sure the Corp doesn't get an Astroscript scored early against you to give him an easier time closing out the game later. Because of that, your other counter for Never Advance is to play with a few expose tools and use them to make sure that you don't waste too much time and money chasing rabbits in the remote server but not giving up an Astroscript as well.



If you're playing against a PSF lock, when the Corp is damaging you, give away your cards even if you have a Plascrete installed, so that when you're forced to do something else you have the buffer. Note that the most important "something else" that you are forced to do is install any ADDITIONAL Plascretes that you draw into. You don't want to draw one and have it discarded to damage because you soaked your current Plascrete too early. Keep in mind that you have 4 clicks and the Corp only has 3, so you can string the game along quite some time just matching clicks with the Corp.

This is a very unnatural-feeling way to play the game though, so I typically get to kill tag-me Runners that I have PSF locked far before they get decked. I think correspondingly if you play this way against a Corp that doesn't understand they can't go all-in on decking you without doing things like spending clicks on getting drip econ installed or giving you additional tough decisions about facedown cards, you'll be surprised how often you can win the game with only 1 click per turn.
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Lluluien
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rattkin wrote:
NBN NA is strong in your meta? Haven't see it in ages, I don't even know how that deck looks like now - Snare / Edge of World? I see a lot of NBN FA/Power Shutdown/Jackson with burst economy.

I suppose that best counter for any shell game is just to expose, probably with Infiltrates, maybe even recycled using Same Old Thing. Or, you know, just prepare and run. Hitting Edge of World once is ok, hitting Snare usually have small impact (just one round slowdown).

Hitting Edge of World once is okay as long as it's not 3 brain damage and you forget to overdraw before running R&D
 
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Frederic Bush
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kroen wrote:
Reading the replies made me happy my NBN FA has complete event-based economy.

The assets are semibluffs.

In and of themselves they're probably not the ideal economy choice but once you add in the value of masquerading as an agenda for one turn, they're suddenly strong.
 
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spags
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lluluien wrote:
kroen wrote:
Reading the replies made me happy my NBN FA has complete event-based economy.

There are things that econ assets in Never Advance can do that your events can't do though. For the trade-off of being trashable, they serve a lot of other functions that aren't related to gaining you credits.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that understanding that is key in playing a competitive NBN FA deck as well, because that deck still typically includes 6 assets and a similar agenda composition, so there's opportunities to take advantage of the same strategies as are used in Never Advance, and if you don't you're sacrificing a big alternative benefit you get from having Jackson and SanSan in the deck.

Truth. I love NBN NA, but this weekend I'm going with more of a FA build. However, despite having Hedge/Sweeps/Biotic, I still have 8 non-Agenda cards (Howard, MMC, SanSan) to install and lure in the Runner with. One of my better test games last night involved installed a remote turn 1, 3 more remotes turn 2, and 2 the turn after. Makes that Breaking News/kill Kati 'combo' quite sweet. The beauty of something like an NA deck is that after enough remotes are made, the Runner can be overwhelmed to the point of giving up on attacking them.
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Jesse M
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Exactly, and if they do check them out, that's a click they are not gaining credits or making a run with.

Outside of Opus, Andromeda is generally pretty strong against NBN. First turn desperado makes checking out remotes less taxing, and the 1 link makes face checking a Caduceus t1 much more manageable. Then Kati Jones + RnD interface helps drive the win home.

On some builds Atman can be strong as well since you see a lot of Eli, Bastion, Viper etc...
 
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spags
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Andy is pretty strong against EVERYthing, though.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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lluluien wrote:


Hitting Edge of World once is okay as long as it's not 3 brain damage and you forget to overdraw before running R&D;)

Wait, what? Edge of World is sitting in remotes. Running with < 3 cards is usually considered dangerous, yes, unless you have some protection.
 
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Lluluien
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rattkin wrote:
lluluien wrote:


Hitting Edge of World once is okay as long as it's not 3 brain damage and you forget to overdraw before running R&D

Wait, what? Edge of World is sitting in remotes. Running with < 3 cards is usually considered dangerous, yes, unless you have some protection.

Sorry it wasn't clear - of course that's intended to reference two different runs; one after the other. And while we're on the topic, in my original version of the deck, if you have to give up a click to draw a card before you can run with 3+ cards every turn, you're playing right into the tag strategy.
 
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