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Subject: What's worthless in netrunner these days? rss

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Marquis DeSade
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Apologies for what might be an obnoxious question here...

I'm getting back into netrunner after a hiatus shortly after C&C. I'm catching up on new releases but am starting to exceed the capacity of my storage, and I'm looking to sequester some of the dead weight.

What, in people's opinions, are the worthless, better-confined-to-a-separate-storage-medium cards in netrunner these days? I'm aware of much maligned cards like netshield and the like, but I would be very interested in a recap on cards that have become either totally invalidated, or replaced by much, much better effects.

In general, I'm very pleased that netrunner doesn't suffer even close to the same number of "completely worthless" cards as, say MtG, but I could be curious to hear about stuff people have entirely sidelined.

Thanks!
 
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Brodie
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Let me be the first to mention Hard At Work.
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Lysander
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Q: Which cards are worthless?

A: Those red runner cards worth more than one influence, with a couple exceptions.
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dan dargenio
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Even the 2 extra copies of the professor can be conveniently flipped over inside of a sleeve to proxy jackson howards.
 
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Russ Arbogast
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Dolono wrote:
I'm aware of much maligned cards like netshield and the like,


In the current meta with the popularity of Jinteki PE, netshield is more useful than it was before.
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Zeb
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Honestly, not much. Net Shield is a viable tech choice.

There are some new cards (Hard at Work, Starlight Crusade Funding, LLDS Chip) that are pretty unplayable, but I expect these to improve with future releases. I can't think of any core set cards that I haven't used at some point.
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R. Fetterkey
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Dolono wrote:
What, in people's opinions, are the worthless, better-confined-to-a-separate-storage-medium cards in netrunner at these days? I'm aware of much maligned cards like netshield and the like, but I would be very interested in a recap on cards that have become either totally invalidated, or replaced by much, much better effects.


The following breakers are considered almost always bad in the present environment:

Aurora (radically inferior to Corroder)

Battering Ram (sometimes better than Corroder but only marginally so in most cases and much more expensive in credits and MU)

Creeper (gimmicky, too expensive)

Dagger (not enough support cards for Stealth to be valid yet)

Force of Nature (too expensive, only good against cards that Yog breaks for 0)

Inti (cheapest Fracter to install but inefficient against anything with strength >1, may see new life once Wraparound comes out?)

Leviathan (way too expensive, pays for strength and extra sub breaks that you don't need)

Morning Star (too expensive in credits and MU for what is often a marginal benefit, can't break big Barriers)

Peacock (inefficient against everything except Tollbooth, which you don't really want to break normally anyway-- sometimes still seen in Criminal decks desperate for Influence, though)

Pipeline (too inefficient to increase strength)

Wyrm (more or less only used in conjunction with Parasite to kill ICE faster)


At present the most commonly seen breakers in a standard suite are Corroder, Mimic, Yog.0, Ninja, and Gordian Blade. Femme Fatale is also often seen, but mostly for its bypass effect. Crypsis has become substantially less popular recently thanks in part to the release of Knight, which is extremely strong. Atman is still around but much less prevalent than it once was. One-shot breakers like Faerie, Deus X, and Sharpshooter are popular but obviously most decks tend to run "real" breakers as well.

Recently, the release of powerful but expensive "big breakers" like Torch and Garrote has caused people to start playing around with big rig decks more, but thus far they haven't been prevalent in tournament-winning builds.
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Fredrik Zetterman
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Zebadiah wrote:
Honestly, not much. Net Shield is a viable tech choice.

There are some new cards (Hard at Work, Starlight Crusade Funding, LLDS Chip) that are pretty unplayable, but I expect these to improve with future releases. I can't think of any core set cards that I haven't used at some point.


Maybe not useless, but Access to Globalsec and Aurora aren't exactly stellar.

From the Genesis cycle, the Weyland triple-KO ICE Woodcutter, Salvage and Tyrant are worth to mention.

Force of Nature, Bullfrog and Net Police are also some of my personal dust collectors.
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C Spiekerman
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Net police, and Leviathan seem pretty terrible.

Will exploratory romp become playable when the next big box comes out?
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Captain Frisk
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Easy Mark has been generally replaced by stronger neutral economy options in C&C (Dirty Laundry / Daily Casts)

Runners have stopped relying on 3x of each breaker in their deck and moved to 1x copies of their suite + cards to tutor them (special order / self modifying code)

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John Meindersee II
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Frame Job might be the worst card in Netrunner.
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Grant Cain
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You may as well trash Jackson Howard as soon as you open the pack. Corps drawing more cards they can't play? Totally unhelpful. Putting three cards back into R&D? Silly. The corp doesn't benefit from this by lengthening the game into a place where the runner has power again.

Also, get rid of Keyhole. Far to expensive and MU intensive to only trash 1 card. (Might as well just play Demolition Run).
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Stan Adecla
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Dolono wrote:
Apologies for what might be an obnoxious question here...

I'm getting back into netrunner after a hiatus shortly after C&C. I'm catching up on new releases but am starting to exceed the capacity of my storage, and I'm looking to annex some of the dead weight.

What, in people's opinions, are the worthless, better-confined-to-a-separate-storage-medium cards in netrunner these days? I'm aware of much maligned cards like netshield and the like, but I would be very interested in a recap on cards that have become either totally invalidated, or replaced by much, much better effects.

In general, I'm very pleased that netrunner doesn't suffer even close to the same number of "completely worthless" cards as, say MtG, but I could be curious to hear about stuff people have entirely sidelined.

Thanks!


Just wanted to say that to annex is to include, not exclude.

But uh... really... FFG does a really good job of not invalidating cards it has created in the past. Metagames will shift. Certain cards will just not be used by the masses. But cards don't just get replaced. FFG is very good at developing laterally.

I'll give you an example: Networking vs. Lawyer Up.

In the Team Covenant of True Colors, one guy says something to the tune of "Lawyer Up beats Networking. Same influence, Lawyer Up does so much more." This is wrong. Lawyer Up does something different. Networking helps a deck that doesn't want to pay as much for tags with other ways to draw. Lawyer Up is used as a runner looking to stack tags somehow in the first two clicks of their turn, or which laughs at a corp not following up dealt tags. The double nature of Lawyer Up makes it very inflexible. The three credits vs. optional one credit cost makes Lawyer Up a meh Diesel if you hopefully removed one tag. For you to have drawn three cards at the end of your turn, you will probably have to be comfortable with discarding one, maybe even two. Things like that.
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Alex Rockwell
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wakkowolf wrote:

In the Team Covenant of True Colors, one guy says something to the tune of "Lawyer Up beats Networking. Same influence, Lawyer Up does so much more." This is wrong. Lawyer Up does something different.



I disagree. Lawyer Up is pretty much a massively improved version of Networking.
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Manuel Galdames
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Lysander1 wrote:
Q: Which cards are worthless?

A: Those red runner cards worth more than one influence, with a couple exceptions.


Corroder
Keyhole
Ice Carver
Rook
Imp
Parasite
Demolition run
Grimoire
Medium
Retrieval run


These cards I consider good. Some of them REALLY good. You're exaggerating brah.


On-topic: Aurora, Pipeline, Force of Nature. I don't think we'll see these cards ever get used unless something tailor made for them hits the card pool.

Although I love the flavour and concept, Data Hound seems more and more like a really poor choice for, well, any corp deck. There's so much recursion going around that -even IF they can't break a single STR 2 Sentry subroutine- it's not worth the slot. To me, Snoop is like FFG's way of saying "Sorry about that one guys, this is the real one".
 
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The Hound
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I was actually thinking about asking this too...

On the Corp ICE side:

Salvage. Pretty much all Weyland ICE that must be advanced while rezzed continues to underperform.

Sherlock 1.0.

Bullfrog. Cell Portal.

Data Hound.

A couple more pieces that I'd mention, but I'm sure I'll get enough complaints about the above choices

 
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mathew rynich
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Data Dealer still sucks. I've never seen someone field that card ever.

While not a garbage card, I see Armitage signifcantly less than in Genesis. There are lots of better ways to make money now. In a pawnshop deck it's still a good include though.

People will say Monolith. It's hard to fit that in a competitive deck. I put it in fun Professor decks though.

Record Reconstructor has a very narrow application.
 
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Jeff Gum
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phillosmaster wrote:
Data Dealer still sucks. I've never seen someone field that card ever.

While not a garbage card, I see Armitage signifcantly less than in Genesis. There are lots of better ways to make money now. In a pawnshop deck it's still a good include though.

People will say Monolith. It's hard to fit that in a competitive deck. I put it in fun Professor decks though.

Record Reconstructor has a very narrow application.


Armitage is still the best card available for getting you out of a hole quickly. I switched back to it recently because I found Daily Casts was too slow.
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mathew rynich
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I agree, but I am seeing it less and less. I think Armitage's fall coincides with Kati Jones' rise. It use to be in almost every deck. ProCon probably pushed it down further when it came out.
 
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Jacek Wieszaczewski
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phillosmaster wrote:
Data Dealer still sucks. I've never seen someone field that card ever.

I played an Andromeda deck with Hostage and various connections. I had Doppelganger as my console and played 3x Notoriety. Data Dealer was decent in this deck - he could eat Notorieties for good cash or was a very good Aesop target.
 
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mathew rynich
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hsiale wrote:
phillosmaster wrote:
Data Dealer still sucks. I've never seen someone field that card ever.

I played an Andromeda deck with Hostage and various connections. I had Doppelganger as my console and played 3x Notoriety. Data Dealer was decent in this deck - he could eat Notorieties for good cash or was a very good Aesop target.


I kinda want to try that. I'm pretty sure I'll get a strange look from across the table when Data Dealer hits the play area.
 
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Michael Redston
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Even if Data Dealer was 9c times the agenda's value (so 9c for 1 pointer, 18c for 2 pointer, etc.) it still would have been bad and unplayed.
 
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Jacek Wieszaczewski
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Definitely try it, it's not as strong as traditional builds with Datasucker or Magnum Opus, but definitely a playable one. I spent influence on 3 Notorieties, Aesop's Pawnshop, Gordian Blade, Corroder, Sacrificial Construct and 2 R&D Interfaces. Most important connections were Kati Jones and Mr. Li. Other than that and using Doppelganger instead of Desperado, it was a standard Andy deck.
 
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M. A.N.
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Maybe you should be asking yourself how you can find value in cards that the hivemind has written off. It may be harder to do, but challenging the meta and coming up with something that is not a slightly modified regurgitation of whatever everybody else is doing is probably much more satisfying than judging a card's value based on it's ubiquity or lack thereof. I saw somebody win a tournament at Game Kastle in Santa Clara with Cloak/Dagger. It blew my mind.

edit: Game Kastle location
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Ben Finkel
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kroen wrote:
Even if Data Dealer was 9c times the agenda's value (so 9c for 1 pointer, 18c for 2 pointer, etc.) it still would have been bad and unplayed.


Somewhat debatable. At least it wouldn't depend enormously on what deck your opponent is playing. A 27 credit spike is pretty awe-inspiring, and would definitely enable some sort of major ransacking of R&D or whatever.
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