Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
21 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: The Engineers vs. The Druids rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
James Webb Space Telescope in 2018!
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
This is from an interesting NPR article today, asking various "smart" people about their fears for the future. Here's one fear about two categories of people I hadn't heard about (Google shows it's been discussed), Engineers versus Druids:

"...Given that I don't have much more space here, I mention only one more fear, that of the growing polarization between two social groups, the Engineers and the Druids, as suggested by Paul Saffo, from Stanford University.

The Engineers believe that science will solve all the troubles of the world, present and future: hunger, illness, scarcity of water and energy.

The Druids believe the opposite, that the excess of science will lead to even worse crises and that no solutions will be found.

The way out, Saffo suggests, is to find some kind of balance between the two, free of tribal fanaticism. After all, everything starts in our minds.

And perhaps that's the biggest worry of them all, that our minds are our freedom and our prison."


More about Engineers and Druids
http://edge.org/response-detail/23858


And now the obvious poll.

Poll
Which are you?
Engineer
Druid
Both
Neither
Don't know
      80 answers
Poll created by tesuji
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Snowball
Belgium
n/a
flag msg tools
badge
Gender: pot*ato. My opinion is an opinion.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What about those who believe we are doomed, not because of science but because of greed, and even though we are toast, we could at least try to escape our demise through science? What kind of crappy rpg allows you to play only two classes anyway?
23 
 Thumb up
1.27
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Webb Space Telescope in 2018!
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
HavocIsHere wrote:
What about those who believe we are doomed, not because of science but because of greed, and even though we are toast, we could at least try to escape our demise through science? What kind of crappy rpg allows you to play only two classes anyway?
I think the dichotomy is about how you view technology only.

But what you're saying nevertheless seems kind of Druidy to me.... Aren't most Druids also out raging against the 1%? (and right they should)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Snowball
Belgium
n/a
flag msg tools
badge
Gender: pot*ato. My opinion is an opinion.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tesuji wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
What about those who believe we are doomed, not because of science but because of greed, and even though we are toast, we could at least try to escape our demise through science? What kind of crappy rpg allows you to play only two classes anyway?
I think the dichotomy is about how you view technology only.

But what you're saying nevertheless seems kind of Druidy to me.... Aren't most Druids also out raging against the 1%? (and right they should)
Yeah one of my nephew actually thought I was one.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom McVey
United States
SF Bay Area
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
That seems a bit of an insult to the ancient Druids, though. We don't know a lot about the ancient Druids, but classical authors recount them as being scholars of what passed for science (natural philosophy) at the time.

Maybe the shapechanging at Level 8 had depressive side-effects.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
rico
United States
Mill Valley
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tmcvey wrote:
That seems a bit of an insult to the ancient Druids, though. We don't know a lot about the ancient Druids, but classical authors recount them as being scholars of what passed for science (natural philosophy) at the time.

In ancient times...
Hundreds of years before the dawn of history
Lived a strange race of people... the Druids

No one knows who they were or what they were doing
But their legacy remains
Hewn into the living rock... Of Stonehenge



10 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Walker
United States
Birmingham
Alabama
flag msg tools
"The significance of a person's life is determined by the story they believe themselves to be in." - Wendell Berry "If nothing lies beyond the pale of death, then nothing of value lies before it." - SMBC
badge
Thy mercy, my God, is the theme of my song, the joy of my heart and the boast of my tongue. Thy free grace alone, from the first to the last, has won my affection and bound my soul fast.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As an engineering student, I am most definitely a Druid. Or, more specifically, I think the fundamental problems of the human race are moral ones, not ones that can be addressed by science.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tobias Strobe
United States
Oakland
California
flag msg tools
badge
Listen to your sidekick and eat the pennies.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
twomillionbucks wrote:
As an engineering student, I am most definitely a Druid. Or, more specifically, I think the fundamental problems of the human race are moral ones, not ones that can be addressed by science.

As a Druid who is an engineer (*), I find myself aligning more closely with the Engineers although I do believe the Druids have some good points. It's also important that I initially rolled Druid in WoW, yet I have a plant-person Engineer in Guild Wars 2 (which is a better game).

All I know is that I've been in this Druid gig for 20 years and I still can't transform into a wolf. What a bill of goods.

* Actually a designer, but I occasionally do some easy engineering tasks
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul W
United States
Eugene
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
I'm not sure if I fall in either category. I don't think that technology is the cause of all the world's problems nor the solution to them. It's no more and no less than a tool...a very powerful one at times to be sure, but the tool itself is neither good nor bad, it's all in how it is used.
5 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Xander Fulton
United States
Astoria
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Depends on your time-scale, I guess.

You can be all the tree-hugging, introspective, compassionate and moral, technology-rejecting...Luddite you want.

Sun ain't gonna care when it's corona expands to roughly the Earth's current orbit, and turns the planet into a charcoal briquette.

So...thinking at a sufficiently long-term-scale, you are either an engineer or an idiot. (And there is no particular guarantee that even 'engineer' will help any species from the planet survive the effective extinction of our sun...but you've got a better shot with that vs the alternative)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Stein
msg tools
mb
I think we know which way Geosphere is going to vote.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Blorb Plorbst
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
I think we're all bozos on this bus.
Avatar
mbmbmb
False

... wait for it ...

Dichotomy
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Iniguez
United States
Idaho Springs
Colorado
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Having a hard time taking this seriously after seeing the article class Scientologists as Engineers. Scientology seems far too psuedo-sciency to really belong in the pro-technology camp.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Webb Space Telescope in 2018!
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
XanderF wrote:
So...thinking at a sufficiently long-term-scale, you are either an engineer or an idiot. (And there is no particular guarantee that even 'engineer' will help any species from the planet survive the effective extinction of our sun...but you've got a better shot with that vs the alternative)
No, the sun-extinction of humans will be a natural process, so Druids are cool with that


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Isaac Citrom
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
badge
MENTE, MANU ET INSTRUMENTUM
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
James Burke addresses precisely this issue. His conclusion is the last part of Connections I, episode 10, wherein he brings together everything he's been discussing in the series and ties a bow around it.

Luckily, this episode is up on YouTube. It's well worth watching the episode from the beginning. If you must jump right to the climax, it's at 28m30s.

Burke identifies not two options, rather four main types of attitudes toward technology:

(1) Scrap advanced technology and go rural.
(2) Selective research only.
(3) Stop all research and share what we already have.
(4) Business as usual.

I really like James Burke. What I especially appreciate is that his comments, made in the 1970s are not in the least dated, which to me is a strong indication of being right.

Here's the video, Connections I, Episode 10, Yesterday, Tomorrow and You:

.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am neither, science created the atomic bomb, and the X-ray machines. Science cannot solve all of the worlds problems, no is it the cause of all of them. It is a tool, and like any tool is of limited applications, and what we make of it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Science is human tool. As such it is morally neutral but can be used for both good and bad.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Born To Lose, Live To Win
United States
South Euclid
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
"Captain, although your abilities intrigue me, you are quite honestly inferior"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
fizzmore wrote:
I don't think that technology is the cause of all the world's problems nor the solution to them.

Of course not, society has already identified that entity.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Junior McSpiffy
United States
Riverton
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Do the engineers have bark in their vending machines? No? Then score one for druids.

Eventual real edit of a fake edit: Oh wait, that was warlock, not druid, wasn't it? Damn, I screwed up the meme.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lee Fisher
United States
Downingtown
PA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GameCrossing wrote:
Do the engineers have bark in their vending machines? No? Then score one for druids.

Fake edit: Oh wait, that was wizards, not druids, wasn't it? Damn, I screwed up the meme.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
He's a warlock
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Junior McSpiffy
United States
Riverton
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
lfisher wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
Do the engineers have bark in their vending machines? No? Then score one for druids.

Fake edit: Oh wait, that was wizards, not druids, wasn't it? Damn, I screwed up the meme.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
He's a warlock

There... are ya happy now? Sheesh....
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls