Andreas W
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Brandon Alderman
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I think like zombie heroes they do count towards the number of zombies.
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Biodiesel
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I'm not so sure. I just checked the rule book and it isn't clear. It says the champions are a separate pool. Zombie heroes don't have a pool to come from. Rules also say that placement follows normal rules, but I think that just refers to evenly distributing across spawn pits.

My other question is are champions "spawned" or "placed"? Feral Dead requires 2 spawn points. Once you have those spawn points, do you then "spawn" the champion in place of another zombie you would have spawned, or do you get to "place" during the spawn zombies phase, at no extra cost?

The latter means if I roll a "6" for my spawn and have a champion with all necessary points saved already, then I could place 6 zombies AND a champion.

I've been playing the former: you save up the points and experience, and then "spawn" the champion in place of a regular zombie.
 
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Andreas W
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I would rather "place" mine. Because if they would have to be "spawned" you might as well say they cost 3 spawnpoints which suddenly feels a lot for what it actually is.
 
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Lear Wolfe

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I'd assume that zombie champions are treated the same way as grave dead, they replace one of your regular spawns.
They are your only other separate pool of zombies, so it would make sense that zombie champions would follow a similar model.
 
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Biodiesel
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lear wrote:
I'd assume that zombie champions are treated the same way as grave dead, they replace one of your regular spawns.
They are your only other separate pool of zombies, so it would make sense that zombie champions would follow a similar model.

This is my thinking, too. Once you've saved up enough spawn points to spawn a champion, it then replaces ONE zombie as you are spawning.
 
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Andreas W
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Sappington wrote:
lear wrote:
I'd assume that zombie champions are treated the same way as grave dead, they replace one of your regular spawns.
They are your only other separate pool of zombies, so it would make sense that zombie champions would follow a similar model.

This is my thinking, too. Once you've saved up enough spawn points to spawn a champion, it then replaces ONE zombie as you are spawning.

But don't you think 3 spawnpoints and 1 experience point is a lot for what u get with the feral. A grave dead is only 2 spawnpoints and almost as strong.
 
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Biodiesel
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andy_b. wrote:
Sappington wrote:
lear wrote:
I'd assume that zombie champions are treated the same way as grave dead, they replace one of your regular spawns.
They are your only other separate pool of zombies, so it would make sense that zombie champions would follow a similar model.

This is my thinking, too. Once you've saved up enough spawn points to spawn a champion, it then replaces ONE zombie as you are spawning.

But don't you think 3 spawnpoints and 1 experience point is a lot for what u get with the feral. A grave dead is only 2 spawnpoints and almost as strong.
Possibly, but the Behemoth is worth the +1, I think. With the way I play, it's impossible to spawn a Behemoth unless you already saved at least one spawn point on that placard (assumes one zombie player rolling one d6 for spawn).

I think we both have good arguments; it would be nice to get clarification from FFP.
 
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Martin S
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The rules do state that "you may have any number of Zombie Champions in addition to your normal Zombies, Zombie Heroes etc." (my emphasis).

So I play that ZCs do not count towards the 14 Zombie limit. This certainly fills the boards (another response to Zombicide) which I think is the intention. Providing you have enough Experience Tokens and Spawn roll you can place ZCs during the normal spawn phase.
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Marko
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But it will be hard to fill the board with ALL the zombie champions as you can only get them when spawning phase triggers (when total zombies < 14)?
 
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Biodiesel
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Sure, but many scenarios use "Zombie Auto-Spawn" now, which negates that restriction.
 
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Martin S
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Sappington wrote:
Sure, but many scenarios use "Zombie Auto-Spawn" now, which negates that restriction.

So you still roll to spawn even though you have all 14 zombies already on the board?
 
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Biodiesel
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Achtung_Panzer10 wrote:
Sappington wrote:
Sure, but many scenarios use "Zombie Auto-Spawn" now, which negates that restriction.

So you still roll to spawn even though you have all 14 zombies already on the board?

Absolutely! If you're playing with champions, grave weapons, grave dead, or any other supplemental rules beyond the base game, there are other things you can do during that phase.

Phase #3, where you roll to see if you will be able to spawn at the end of the turn, simply checks to see if you can roll higher than the number of zombies already on the board. If the scenario does not call for this phase to be skipped ("Zombie Auto-Spawn"), then if you have 12 or more zombies on the board, it's pointless to try and roll the standard 2d6.

Phase #6, spawn new zombies, simply lets you roll and spawn that many zombies. This phase doesn't have a prerequisite of zombies in your pool, nor does the roll.
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Matt Halas
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I'm probably being redundant here, but are there any further thoughts regarding this? I'm going back and forth in my head on the rules, and I'm almost inclined to think the following:

1) Champions are placed on the board in addition to the number of zombies being spawned (They cost you zombie spawns and XP, after all).

2) Zombie Champions don't count towards the "Roll to Spawn New Zombies" phase (assuming that the scenario being used doesn't have Zombies Auto-spawn)

I can see it going the other way, as well, but in my experience, I don't end up with a whole lot of XP to throw around as the ZP, which makes them feel more costly than the Grave Dead.
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Biodiesel
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This argument on the TheZombieGame.com forum has changed my mind. I think I've been playing it wrong:

ATOEtalGeek wrote:

The rule on page 9 states: "Anytime you are Spawning Zombies, you may also choose any Zombie Champions that have Spawn Tokens on them equal to their cost and pay the listed amount of Experience Tokens to place them on a Zombie Spawning Pit. " (my emphasis)

Your first position would have you paying the necessary cost listed on the Champion card to summon the Champion to your Pool, from which you can then spawn. The rule clarifies this is not the case though - the Champion is summoned to the Spawning Pit once the cost is paid.

http://www.thezombiegame.com/forums/Thread-BitF-Spawn-Cost-f...
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Matt Halas
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Okay... that's how I was reading it at first. The wording is definitely a bit off.
 
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