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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » General

Subject: star wars x-wing and star trek attack wing rss

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joe nardo
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Im thinking about getting into attack wing along with x-wing so I was wondering how many people on this forum play both systems.
 
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Cletus Van Damme

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I play both. X-wing more than AW though.
 
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Ryan King
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Those Star Trek models just don't do it for me. Love some x wing!
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Obsolete Man
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I have played both but X-Wing doesn't interest me that much. Attack Wing has an amazing amount of variety in the numerous factions (every ship can have captain, crew, tech and weapon upgrade cards, plus some captains can have elite talents). Plus you get special mission cards with each new ship so there are a ton of different ways to play.

I like Star Trek and Star Wars about equally. X-Wing has better paint jobs but I repaint my Star Trek models anyway so I don't care much about that.

To me, the main constraint in X-Wing is that there are ultimately only 2 sides and the movies only ever showed a few classes of ships. There's just nowhere to go with it really. Star Trek is wide open with over a dozen factions and multiple ship classes in each faction and multiple builds for each ship.
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joe nardo
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the attack wing models look much better with nothing but a wash. star wars has a huge galaxy to expand on if you go past the movies. the argument people make about cannon and not cannon is in my opinion idiotic because all I want is more and more ships!
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Brandon Holmes
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I am more of a Star Wars fan and I prefer the models of X-Wing but I think Attack Wing may actually be the better game in some ways. Of course X-Wing probably has wider appeal and I love where they are going with the large ships but Attack Wing has other things going for it (multiple factions, cooler missions, more "fun"/interesting cards and effects etc.). I also like that Attack Wing does very well when you only own one copy of each ship, whereas I think X-Wing only really shines if you get multiples of most ships.

Overall I am glad I own both. If I could only pick one I'd base it on which franchise my group was a bigger fan of. You can't go wrong with either.
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Tim Woehlke
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The problem is when I think of Star Trek I don't think of space battles. I know they are part of the show but they aren't the core of the show. It would be like making a Gremlins game about bulldozers. I get the connection but...

Anyway, if I were going to pick up other games based on this format I either pick up Wings of War or Sails of Glory. Both of those themes I dig a ton. Star Trek? Not so much.
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Xander Fulton
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Requete wrote:
To me, the main constraint in X-Wing is that there are ultimately only 2 sides and the movies only ever showed a few classes of ships. There's just nowhere to go with it really. Star Trek is wide open with over a dozen factions and multiple ship classes in each faction and multiple builds for each ship.

Guessing you haven't played the PC games (specifically, 'X-Wing' or 'TIE Fighter' or their lesser sequels)? Or even the old West End Games RPG?

One of the nice things about the Star Wars universe is that it's a LOT more massive than the Star Trek universe...strangely. Probably due to Star Trek having the Federation being the dominant factor in galactic politics, and them being Always Right (tm). Star Wars is FAR more shades of grey - particularly when looking at the whole 6-movie set - and sits in a considerably more 'lived in' history (Star Trek only gets a couple hundred years before it's present-day stuff). And that leaves a LOT of room for interesting corners of the setting, and interesting stories.

And, anyway...I mean...



(EDIT: Granted, FFG is doing, like, nothing with the setting. And it's INFURIATING! 'X-Wing' is certainly let down by their half-assing it. It's a good game, well balanced, and gorgeous minis, but....AHHHHH, it could be so much more! 'Attack Wing', on the other hand....well, it's dreadfully balanced, it really is. But WizKids is doing a HELL of a lot better of a job making it 'engaging' with their monthly storyline-based events, and massive, MASSIVE set of scenarios they are providing for it.)
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Obsolete Man
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XanderF wrote:

Guessing you haven't played the PC games (specifically, 'X-Wing' or 'TIE Fighter' or their lesser sequels)? Or even the old West End Games RPG?

Wrong guesses all around.

And... there were only 3 Star Wars movies.
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Guido Gloor
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I don't have the time and energy for both ... in fact, I already struggle to play X-Wing anywhere near often enough. And both games cost money, too. So I stick with the one with the background I prefer, and that's X-Wing.

(Don't get me wrong, I like Star Trek, but I carry Yoda and Darth as keyring pendants.)
 
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Michael Ptak
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I play both. Started with X-Wing and followed curiosity with Attack Wing and have been participating ever since their first Organized Play event. I've been doing more of that than X-Wing up until recently, when I decided I wanted to give it a rest and go back to X-Wing.

X-Wing releases may be slower but I'm not liking where the compeditive meta-strategy of Attack Wing is headed.
 
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Michael Stone
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I play both but x-wing is better.
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Keoki Young
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I enjoy both, though I get to play X-Wing much more often because there are more players where I live.

For me, both games have their strong and not-so-strong points. I prefer X-Wing for just a straight-up dogfight. The ships are more balanced (not to mention prettier) and it's an elegant game. There aren't many missions available, however, and those available often aren't well balanced.

Attack Wing, on the other hand, has a ton more options in ships, upgrades, and especially missions. The missions are often based on Star Trek shows and can be quite nostalgic. The ships themselves are not well balanced, though, and dogfights can get slow, since many of the ships take forever and a day to turn around.

I wish FFG would put out more missions for X-Wing, perhaps online.
 
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Jeff Dunford
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Snarly_Yow wrote:
The problem is when I think of Star Trek I don't think of space battles. I know they are part of the show but they aren't the core of the show. It would be like making a Gremlins movie about bulldozers. I get the connection but...

Anyway, if I were going to pick up other games based on this format I either pick up Wings of War or Sails of Glory. Both of those themes I dig a ton. Star Trek? Not so much.

^^ this.

Also, I can't justify two flight-path collectible games, either in terms of time or money. I get my Trek fix from Fleet Captains (and, to a lesser extent, the Deck Building Games).
 
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Ken
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I haven't played Attack Wing to I really can't say too much there.

I really enjoy Star Wars, still very thematic. The only think I feel is really lacking is a lack of scenarios. But there are several fan made ones out there. FFG has hinted that scenarios are forth coming.

But the minis are great, you don't have to pay $15 and repaint them. Detail is awesome, play is smooth and just the Fan Base for Star Wars, well... that speaks for itself.

You may enjoy either and even though they use the same system they are very different games.

One thing I can say about Attack Wing is that it is like a CCG (Collectible Card Game). There will be expansions that you can ONLY get on eBay, going to a convention and/or winning tournaments. For some that's a big deal. Right now Kahn is selling for around $70 on ebay and that is down from over $100 just a month or so ago. Star Wars may sell out from time to time but FFG has stated very clearly this is a miniature game and nothing will be printed to be rare, unique, etc... Even their rewards have been the same pilots with the same skills but with different art. Or the same tokens with the same abilities but in plastic. An Attack Wing reward was at one point dice with different odds, i.e. no blanks. Some people like seeking out that kind of advantage, others like a more level playing field.
 
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Scott S
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XanderF wrote:

Guessing you haven't played the PC games (specifically, 'X-Wing' or 'TIE Fighter' or their lesser sequels)? Or even the old West End Games RPG?

One of the nice things about the Star Wars universe is that it's a LOT more massive than the Star Trek universe...strangely. Probably due to Star Trek having the Federation being the dominant factor in galactic politics, and them being Always Right (tm). Star Wars is FAR more shades of grey - particularly when looking at the whole 6-movie set - and sits in a considerably more 'lived in' history (Star Trek only gets a couple hundred years before it's present-day stuff). And that leaves a LOT of room for interesting corners of the setting, and interesting stories.

Wait, what? That doesn't exactly seem right, since Star Wars tends to boil down to good vs evil.
 
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Greg C
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I play mainly Star Wars but have played Star Trek AW both casually and in the Organized Play events. While I enjoy both games I prefer the play of Star Wars as I feel it captures the dogfighting action while the same feel cannot be had by Star Trek ships.

There are aspects of Star Trek that I do like, such as being able to move captians and crew around to different ships and scenario play. But I feel that Star Trek by its nature (a capital ship game) needs that building/play dynamic and does it very well. In Star Trek it is easy to have a scenario where you beam crew or troop to a station or planet and fight over it while ships are battling above. Also crew is important to a large capital ship. You need a captian, a helmsman, a engineer... and so many more positions. Star Wars's scale (small fighters, mainly) cannot replicate that type of action as it is typically one man, one ship. However I feel the action is much more dynamic as squadrons of fighters swirl around each other in a life or death struggle.

Anyway the long and short of it is I enjoy both but will mainly play and collect Star Wars. Luckily I have a friend who mainly plays Star Trek and is a completist so he has plenty of ships for me to use when I do play!


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Eric B.
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I play both, but X-Wing is superior in every regard that matters, in my book. X-Wing has better component quality, better balance, and clearer rules. FFG is an amazing company praised for its customer support and high quality control of opponents. WizKids is perhaps at the opposite end of the spectrum and has a long history documented here on these boards of low quality control and poor customer support.


I acquired Attack Wing for two reasons:

(1) I got the set for "free" at Gencon by selling off the exclusive-yet-usable-in-competitive games Khan promo for more than the stuff cost me, as I anticipated. Thanks WizKids for your ridiculously problematic "exclusive stuff is legal in tournaments" mentality! I like free games, even if they're not great.

(2) I wanted to use the stuff to make a similar but more cinematic home-brew game that pitted players on a big 4x6 board against an "AI" Borg Cube.


As it turns out, the local FLGS started running the OP events, so I started playing in them since I had the stuff and I like to support the store when I can since (adding to their player base and the buy-in for each event). I'm the commissioner of the local Blood Bowl league and they give us ample space to play even though we don't spend much money directly on BB, obviously, so I support them elsewhere when I can.


What I've learned is that given a choice between playing the two games, I would play X-Wing every single time, hands down. But, since my store only runs ST:AW and doesn't run X-Wing, my ST:AW gets to hit the table. X-Wing has to wait patiently and eagerly for games with friends at home and the tournament season.


My thoughts on comparing the two games, or: Why I prefer X-Wing:


As a competitive and casual X-Winger, I can say that ST:AW seems terribly unbalanced. Players praise it for it's ability to mix "factions" and the freedom it provides, but it really just leads to unbridled min-maxing. In fact, the term "factions" is almost a misnomer since it in no way indicates player affiliation or limits which ships a player can choose. A player in Attack Wing has no faction: you can always build lists with any mix of ships you want. "Factions" are property of the cards and all they do is indicate when you have to pay a nominal tax: if I want to put a Federation crew on a Romulan ship, I just pay +1 point. Players don't have a "faction" in the proper sense: you can declare yourself as fighting for the Romulans in the OP Tournament, then use a list of nothing but Klingon and Dominion ships with crew from the Federation and Ferengi. What this means is very efficient/powerful cards like Picard, Sulu, Cloaked Mines get used in tons of lists, while the less efficient (not under-costed) cards never get used. So while it allows "more" freedom of choice, really it seems to have the inverse effect of just shrinking the pool of cards you'd ever consider using in a competitive setting.


The innate ship costing is entirely out of whack, in my opinion. The total cost of a ship is the sum of all of it's stats times two. So, a ship pays two points for it's first point of attack and two points for a fifth point of attack. But anyone who's played X-Wing for more than a week knows that a fourth attack die is worth a hell of a lot more than a third attack die which is worth a hell of a lot more than a second attack die, but ST:AW's flat cost system doesn't take that into account. So you end up with very efficient, very popular heavy ships and unplayable low and mid range ships.


The combos in ST:AW are unbridled. I routinely roll 7-8 Attack dice with TL+"Focus" on offense, which as you can imagine even obliterates dreadnaught level capital ships in a single attack or two. Because of this, ships in Attack Wing actually feel squishier and more frail than the fighters in X-Wing because they tend to fall to a single attack or two. I just made a list with a "super" Enterprise that was rolling 8-9 defense dice against every attack in the turn with a "focus" token, an "evade" token, and "Luke's pilot ability" (convert one "focus" to evade every attack). Yea, nothing could hit me. Oh, and I forgot to mention it's very easy to get three-four actions per ship now, which further fuels the issue of unbridled power. Card's like "Barrage of Fire" (4pts, combines two ships' attack, gives "stress") make it possible to roll a 11-12 die attack with TL+Focus. Ouch.


The rules are a huge mess. Many cards are poorly worded, which is understandable since they're churning out TWENTY SEVEN ships in their first year. Yea...I'm sure they've all been play-tested to the highest standards of rigor... As a result, you end up with the most convoluted and bloated set of rulings I've seen for any game in my 15+ years within the hobby, save for maybe M:tG. I kid you not, the "FAQ" is an unwieldy 110 page forum thread here at the Geek that grows everyday: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1031156/st-aw-official-preli... --thank goodness users are undertaking the Herculean task to create a Wiki with every individual card and its more key rulings.

Complex cards like "Anti-Matter Mines" are so confusing that at the OP event last night two players spent more time trying to look up a question about the Anti-Matter Mines than they did playing their game. The gist of A-M Mines: This card's attack rolls are not modified. Well, unless you drop it directly on a ship. Then you can modify it, but only on the turn that it is dropped. And you can modify with X and Y and Z. But you cant modify it with A or B or C.


Whoever said the ships just need a good wash probably had more luck than I did. I've repainted most of my ships since they stock jobs are underwhelming to terrible, depending on who you ask (a baby blue Enterprise? klingon ships in every different color of off green, some shiny and some not?). Whatever top coat WK uses in production seems to resist washes, and I can't ever get it to apply smoothly. It almost "beads up," so washes alone haven't worked for me. But, that top coat takes paint like a champ, almost as if it were a primer. So they've been really quick and easy to repaint, which is very nice.





If you have the option to play either, I'd say go for it. If you have the option to choose, I strongly strongly strongly prefer X-Wing. But, this is of course just my opinion. Some people claim to like ST:AW better for some of the reasons I've noted, and for others it comes down to which theme/franchise they like better.
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Fastback M
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In a nutshell (and I thoroughly enjoy both) X-wing plays like a Star Wars movie: Two sides trying to straight up kill each other.

Attack Wing: A busy multi-race universe all trying to use their strengths to dominate. Feds have Crews, Klinks just want to kill or die, Rommies are just sneaky, etc.
 
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Xander Fulton
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Sithborg wrote:
XanderF wrote:

Guessing you haven't played the PC games (specifically, 'X-Wing' or 'TIE Fighter' or their lesser sequels)? Or even the old West End Games RPG?

One of the nice things about the Star Wars universe is that it's a LOT more massive than the Star Trek universe...strangely. Probably due to Star Trek having the Federation being the dominant factor in galactic politics, and them being Always Right (tm). Star Wars is FAR more shades of grey - particularly when looking at the whole 6-movie set - and sits in a considerably more 'lived in' history (Star Trek only gets a couple hundred years before it's present-day stuff). And that leaves a LOT of room for interesting corners of the setting, and interesting stories.

Wait, what? That doesn't exactly seem right, since Star Wars tends to boil down to good vs evil.

Han Solo was a drug runner - is he 'good' or 'evil'?

Lando Calrissian was an arms merchant, selling guns (well, ammo, specifically - Tibanna Gas was used to power the blasters in the universe) to criminals. 'Good' or 'evil'?

The Rebel Alliance was a terrorist organization - you can argue whether or not the Empire was good or evil*, but you can hardly argue that the Rebels were not killing innocent people along the way.

* certainly some members of the Empire WERE evil - but was the whole thing evil? Storm Troopers were hardly kicking down doors in Mos Eisley when looking for the droids, and when there was trouble at the Cantina the bartender didn't seem too worried about asking the Imperial troops for help.
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Ken
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XanderF wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
XanderF wrote:

Guessing you haven't played the PC games (specifically, 'X-Wing' or 'TIE Fighter' or their lesser sequels)? Or even the old West End Games RPG?

One of the nice things about the Star Wars universe is that it's a LOT more massive than the Star Trek universe...strangely. Probably due to Star Trek having the Federation being the dominant factor in galactic politics, and them being Always Right (tm). Star Wars is FAR more shades of grey - particularly when looking at the whole 6-movie set - and sits in a considerably more 'lived in' history (Star Trek only gets a couple hundred years before it's present-day stuff). And that leaves a LOT of room for interesting corners of the setting, and interesting stories.

Wait, what? That doesn't exactly seem right, since Star Wars tends to boil down to good vs evil.

Han Solo was a drug runner - is he 'good' or 'evil'?

Lando Calrissian was an arms merchant, selling guns (well, ammo, specifically - Tibanna Gas was used to power the blasters in the universe) to criminals. 'Good' or 'evil'?

The Rebel Alliance was a terrorist organization - you can argue whether or not the Empire was good or evil*, but you can hardly argue that the Rebels were not killing innocent people along the way.

* certainly some members of the Empire WERE evil - but was the whole thing evil? Storm Troopers were hardly kicking down doors in Mos Eisley when looking for the droids, and when there was trouble at the Cantina the bartender didn't seem too worried about asking the Imperial troops for help.

"I encounter civilians like you all the time. You believe the Empire is continually plotting to do harm. Let me tell you, your view of the Empire is far too dramatic. The Empire is a government. It keeps billions of beings fed and clothed. Day after day, year after year, on thousands of worlds, people live their lives under Imperial rule without seeing a stormtrooper or hearing a TIE fighter scream overhead."
―Captain Thrawn, to Tash Arranda
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Jordan Scott
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I play them both and enjoy both as they have distinctly different feels.

X-Wing is definitely a dogfight game. Small, fast ships zipping about the play space.

Attack Wing does feel like a fleet engagement with mechanics that give a distinct Star Trek feel.
 
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Michael Taylor
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I play both, but I like X-Wing better. I've only bought two ships for Attack Wing and I'll probably buy a third, but that's it.

Attack Wing is a little too slow for me, but since my friends play I'll play too.

I'm also starting up a Battlestar Galactica: Attack Wing came so Attack Wing will stay a distant third for me.
 
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