Jason Crandall
msg tools
I feel like Oscar Kass is extra powerfull because if you get him next to your opponent then every time he hits them he gets to remove injury markers- so how do you ever kill him unless you get rewards/boosts and get multipule people around him?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Crandall
msg tools
jasno999 wrote:
I feel like Oscar Kass is extra powerfull because if you get him next to your opponent then every time he hits them he gets to remove injury markers- so how do you ever kill him unless you get rewards/boosts and get multipule people around him?


My other one is the tofus- if you get them out early they basically can go out and grab all of the avaliable coins - so the person with the tofus basically can get all the best rewards/spells/boosts.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ricky Dang
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If you play only the core game, Oscar is not bad, but the summoner types are generally considered to be the most overpowered in the core game. Oscar is an excellent self sustained tank however and I enjoy playing him in conjunction with range units.

Also, Tofus cannot grab coins. If you look in the rulebook, only Krosmasters can grab coins and buy. Tofus are considered tokens/summons and cannot purchase anything, pick up coins, or equip.

Edit: To counter Oscar, simple ignore him. If you don't have enough firepower to drop him, move onto other targets. Remember, in this game, you don't need to kill off everyone of the opposite's units to win. Oscar, while an excellent solo unit, doesn't dish out too much damage (standard 1 damage per 3 ap) nor does he have much special abilities. You're better off going for the squishier units or healers and try to win by grabbing your opponent's 6 GG.

As for token rules, please refer to page 23 on the right column in the middle for reference to the token rule about picking up coins.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Crandall
msg tools
NeoGenesisX wrote:
If you play only the core game, Oscar is not bad, but the summoner types are generally considered to be the most overpowered in the core game. Oscar is an excellent self sustained tank however and I enjoy playing him in conjunction with range units.

Also, Tofus cannot grab coins. If you look in the rulebook, only Krosmasters can grab coins and buy. Tofus are considered tokens/summons and cannot purchase anything, pick up coins, or equip.

Edit: To counter Oscar, simple ignore him. If you don't have enough firepower to drop him, move onto other targets. Remember, in this game, you don't need to kill off everyone of the opposite's units to win. Oscar, while an excellent solo unit, doesn't dish out too much damage (standard 1 damage per 3 ap) nor does he have much special abilities. You're better off going for the squishier units or healers and try to win by grabbing your opponent's 6 GG.

As for token rules, please refer to page 23 on the right column in the middle for reference to the token rule about picking up coins.



Holy cow- I thought the tofus could collect coins.... Wow I messed that up- if they can't collect coins then what use are they really??? I mean I know you can use them as little blocker but they are ittybitty so people shoot over them, they can not lock and they die so easily- I jsut don't get what their real advantage is..
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ricky Dang
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
They're respawnable meat shields. They're great at being physically in the way of a melee unit and just great things to have around to annoy people. Just think of having 3 of them in a choke point. Enemies will have to grind through 3 of them just to reach your Queen. Don't forget that chance that they can damage. They're super annoyances to have around. Play a bit more and you will see different ways to position them to irk an enemy. Use them in melee to block off other melee units from reaching your range units. Use them to chase down range units and force them to keep moving and not letting them set up. If they do set up, they'll have to chance no only a potential 1 damage from each one of them, but the Queen's attack will get boosted.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Cwikla

Burbank
California
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Some really experienced players of this game (from the French tournament scene) have commented about how balanced this game is and if you think someone is overpowered, it's just because you haven't figured out the counter-strategy yet. I don't have enough plays to make a judgement call on balance of every single character yet, but I've been pleased with what I've seen so far.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ricky Dang
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
iguano wrote:
Some really experienced players of this game (from the French tournament scene) have commented about how balanced this game is and if you think someone is overpowered, it's just because you haven't figured out the counter-strategy yet. I don't have enough plays to make a judgement call on balance of every single character yet, but I've been pleased with what I've seen so far.

I doubt you can call the game balanced when all high level teams used to use Nox/Dark Goultard + that lvl2 summoner that escapes my memory right now. If it truly was balanced, we'd be seeing a lot more variety in the tournaments rather than mirror matches left and right. Granted with the recent nerfs and bans, we should be seeing a shakeup, but it's too early to tell at this point.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K
United States
Oakland
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I actually wish Oscar were a bit stronger. But to answer your question about his mortality, with base characters, yes, he's hard to kill and you shouldn't even try -- you don't need to kill every character to win, so you choose which ones you are going to kill.

If you have a team with heavy firepower (expansions required), he can be taken out if he's reckless.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Christensen
United States
Nevada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
NeoGenesisX wrote:
iguano wrote:
Some really experienced players of this game (from the French tournament scene) have commented about how balanced this game is and if you think someone is overpowered, it's just because you haven't figured out the counter-strategy yet. I don't have enough plays to make a judgement call on balance of every single character yet, but I've been pleased with what I've seen so far.

I doubt you can call the game balanced when all high level teams used to use Nox/Dark Goultard + that lvl2 summoner that escapes my memory right now. If it truly was balanced, we'd be seeing a lot more variety in the tournaments rather than mirror matches left and right. Granted with the recent nerfs and bans, we should be seeing a shakeup, but it's too early to tell at this point.


What are the latest nerfs? I always think about getting into the game more fully but I get really annoyed that to be competitive you pretty much have to play a lv6 and then lots of lv 1s and 2s.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ricky Dang
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The main nerf was turn Klor from lvl 2 to a lvl 4. She's also been banned from all physical tournaments. That's the main nerf. I can't recall the other changes, but I think one of the characters that turned into a gold letter or something minor...

That's why I don't bother going competitive. I love playing on the casual level and they're just great art pieces to display. It helps that the US can get all the pieces without competing (though we gotta shell out some pretty pennies for it...).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Christensen
United States
Nevada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
oh. I knew about the Klor nerf I was hoping there had been others. oh well. Maybe I'll check back from time to time to see if things get re-balanced. But at that point I may be too behind in miniatures to even bother.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
kevin duda
United States
fremont
California
flag msg tools
ClanNatioy wrote:
oh. I knew about the Klor nerf I was hoping there had been others. oh well. Maybe I'll check back from time to time to see if things get re-balanced. But at that point I may be too behind in miniatures to even bother.

September of '14 is supposed to drop a new restatting. But just play casually until then. Why not cas-ban the figs you think are OP? You can then discover the next batch of figs that are OP.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Riley
United Kingdom
Woodford Green
Essex
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Out of the 8 figures in the base set, I don't think any are particularly more powerful than any of the others. Yes Oscar's self heal can make him last longer, but generally he's only going to get 2 or 3 HP back with it, just the same as a heal from Lil and it only achieves something if he's not a full HP.

Given he's got the same standard 3MP as everyone else, it's fairly easy to stay away from him until you've got a chance to stick a couple of people on him and wear away his HP in a couple of turns. His 0 starting point ranged power is sometimes worse than useless. It temps you into having a crack, when you'd be better off picking up coins to get a better use out of him or another character next turn.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Christensen
United States
Nevada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jugglervr wrote:
ClanNatioy wrote:
oh. I knew about the Klor nerf I was hoping there had been others. oh well. Maybe I'll check back from time to time to see if things get re-balanced. But at that point I may be too behind in miniatures to even bother.

September of '14 is supposed to drop a new restatting. But just play casually until then. Why not cas-ban the figs you think are OP? You can then discover the next batch of figs that are OP.


This would work for most people but not for me. It really bothers me to be playing a game that I know doesn't hold up to competitive play. I really enjoy playing games competitively but I can't stand when you have to play with certain lists or you will be at a disadvantage.

I had heard about the September update which had me some what hopeful. The game is so expensive to keep up with that I really wish they would open up the testing to the public and get feed back from the community and from people that play the game a ton and have a better idea of what works and what doesn't. With out knowing any of their plans for character changes I'm having a hard time justifying buying more for this game. If I do like the changes they make in September I'll probably be so behind that I wont even bother with the game any more. I think it would be a lot better for them as a company to just post the character changes online and update us as things happen.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
kevin duda
United States
fremont
California
flag msg tools
ClanNatioy wrote:
It really bothers me to be playing a game that I know doesn't hold up to competitive play. I really enjoy playing games competitively but I can't stand when you have to play with certain lists or you will be at a disadvantage.


I've played about 35 ranked games online with my shitty "free" army and I've seen maybe 4 nox builds, and I haven't lost any worse to them than to several other builds. I have also yet to see a goultard OR barbarian build so far. This means either that nobody has those figures (though you can buy a virtual barbarian with tournament wins), or they've figured out how to play against them well enough that the meta has started to recover.

I remember, playing monsterpocalypse, everyone was afraid of Mega Zor-Maxim (and to a lesser extent Ultra Zor-Voltis), until they discovered how to play against the Zors, and once that knowledge got around, they weren't nearly so scary. You could still pilot them to victory with only a little luck, but they were definitely beatable by a skilled opponent.

Similarly, combo decks tore up magic when they first became popular, but once people learned how to play against ProsBloom, it was no longer the juggernaut; it was just a viable deck.

With Krosmaster, it seems that while there are a few dominant pieces, they're not the end-all, be-all of competitive play. The game could certainly use a little more balance, but games with flat power curves are boring. Every piece shouldn't be exactly equal to every other piece in power, else whence comes the skill in team building??
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ricky Dang
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
35 ranked games is nowhere near enough to get your to the top where all the Nox and Goultards are flying. Give it some time and once you hit mid-high ELOs, you should start seeing them. Anyone who has those characters unlocked will fly through the lower ELOs stomping, so that's why you don't see them.

That said, I'm fine with pieces being unbalanced to each other, but I will have to not agree when a single piece will cause the whole game to work around you (I'm looking at you Klor). Just by having them in any configuration will increase your when % greatly and the only way to counter that is to play a mirror match.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Riley
United Kingdom
Woodford Green
Essex
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As I played more I found the most common opponents changed from Nox to Goultard and now to Count Frigost. Though the Frigost is new, which is probably why it's showing up.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Christensen
United States
Nevada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jugglervr wrote:


I've played about 35 ranked games online with my shitty "free" army and I've seen maybe 4 nox builds, and I haven't lost any worse to them than to several other builds. I have also yet to see a goultard OR barbarian build so far. This means either that nobody has those figures (though you can buy a virtual barbarian with tournament wins), or they've figured out how to play against them well enough that the meta has started to recover.

games with flat power curves are boring. Every piece shouldn't be exactly equal to every other piece in power, else whence comes the skill in team building??


I've played about 40 games online and have run into level 6 characters quite a bit. When I get paired up with some one that is more in my number of games bracket I hardly ever see them (because they don't have it yet) but almost every time I got paired with some one that was well above me in number of games played they have a level 6.

It's silly how much the game favors level 6 characters. It just doesn't make sense and isn't healthy for the game.

I highly disagree with the last sentence I quoted. All level 1 characters should be equal in power to all other level 1s. All level 2s should be equal in power to all other level 2s. and so on for all the levels. Now it's not really possible to get everything 100% in power level but it should be a goal to make them as close as possible. If some characters are made stronger then others for no reason then we are left with a handful of good characters and a lot of Junk characters. The skill in team building should come from pairing characters that work well together not from finding out who are the most powerful and therefore are the obvious picks to be on your team. That is the opposite of skill. And for me personally little skill should be on picking your characters (finding out which characters work well together should be the skill required here). The skill should come from how you played the pieces you picked.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
kevin duda
United States
fremont
California
flag msg tools
ClanNatioy wrote:

I've played about 40 games online and have run into level 6 characters quite a bit. When I get paired up with some one that is more in my number of games bracket I hardly ever see them (because they don't have it yet) but almost every time I got paired with some one that was well above me in number of games played they have a level 6.


About half the time I face a level 6 (or "titan") team, I'm able to severely cripple or even kill the titan with the free group of figures (i haven't registered my physical figures yet). That's the bare-bones, i-didn't-build-this group, no-flexibility crap-team. I usually lose because this is a team I didn't build to be good at killing a titan and then surviving, but the ability is there to take out these titans. I post much worse records with a more novel team, like the life-damage, high-heal team I recently lost embarrassingly to.

ClanNatioy wrote:
I highly disagree with the last sentence I quoted. All level 1 characters should be equal in power to all other level 1s. All level 2s should be equal in power to all other level 2s. and so on for all the levels. Now it's not really possible to get everything 100% in power level but it should be a goal to make them as close as possible. If some characters are made stronger then others for no reason then we are left with a handful of good characters and a lot of Junk characters. The skill in team building should come from pairing characters that work well together not from finding out who are the most powerful and therefore are the obvious picks to be on your team. That is the opposite of skill. And for me personally little skill should be on picking your characters (finding out which characters work well together should be the skill required here). The skill should come from how you played the pieces you picked.

This is one of the most ridiculous paragraphs I've ever read.
Firstly, as i've bolded for emphasis, it's flat-out impossible to get every figure to be the same power level.

Secondly, what one player considers powerful for their play style will be wildly different than what another player's style would prefer.

Thirdly, every game needs low-powered pieces so that new, completely novice, players can easily easily rule out the figures they don't want to play with.

Fourthly, as my second bolding emphasizes, almost no figures are going to be fresh-out-the-gate overpowered on their own, but are going to show their OP nature when paired with other good combo pieces. To poach an example from Magic, Tarmogoyf is absolutely the best aggro creature ever printed. Every deck that can run him and isn't a lock deck MUST do so. However, there was a period of time, almost a year in length, where scavenging ooze was a better creature in the Legacy format, mostly because of its utility and partly because it shrank Tarmogoyf. Does that mean that Scavenging Ooze is now OP to the degree that Tarmogoyf is? Not remotely. It's the combination of cards in the meta that made Ooze better. Now that the meta has swung, the Ooze is nearly a junk rare again, but that doesn't change the fact that due to certain combinations, it was *better* than the most efficient aggro creature ever printed.

Fifthly, if a character was simply so-so, but became game-breaking with another character who was also only so-so on its own, I argue that this isn't a flat power curve, either, since both figures are on-curve, but become warping when used in concert. Now you have to examine all pairs of figures together, and all triples, and all pairs with all other pairs, etc, ad nauseam. This is NO different from individual figures warping the meta on their own; it just takes one more step to do so. Any game developer tries to iron out warping combos, but they also DO allow for powerful ones to exist, as they should, as they should also allow for powerful individual figures to exist. Again, to poach an example from Magic, I routinely see discussions about this or that new creature (in Standard, where the card pool is smaller and every card warrants examination), how amazingly efficient it is, how it may be too powerful to have been printed, and then ultimately, how it's not good enough due to this or that current metagame trend. Powerful pieces usually don't warp a format on their own (especially when the complaint is about 2 different titan builds "dominating" the meta).
I argue that powerful pieces are also important to showcase what can be done with the skillful combination of 2 other average-power pieces to become greater than the sum of their parts. This opens up really next-level team-building, like the discussion of whether it's better to include the one powerful guy, or the 2 that do his job better, and which choice works better with the team you're building, etc, etc.

Sixthly, you're arguing that the skill in team building should come from pairing characters that work well together, but then argue that team building should take little skill. In that case, why even play a customizeable game? Why not just play chess?

I'm not shy about my opinion that a few other figures probably could use a gentle nerf, but it's nowhere near as bad as Black Summer or Combo Winter were for Magic. Build the winning list or build to beat the winning list and risk losing to a rogue. Welcome to a metagame.

No need to reply, though; you've said you're quitting. You should have no real attachment to the game. Go on and play chess, and we'll play this one and enjoy the variances, the shifting meta, and the finer points of team building and maximizing init order in the hopes of finding the next really cool killer combo.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kiren Maelwulf
Canada
Richmond
BC
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ClanNatioy wrote:

I've played about 40 games online and have run into level 6 characters quite a bit. When I get paired up with some one that is more in my number of games bracket I hardly ever see them (because they don't have it yet) but almost every time I got paired with some one that was well above me in number of games played they have a level 6.

It's silly how much the game favors level 6 characters. It just doesn't make sense and isn't healthy for the game.


It's not just the level 6s, there are several level 5s of questionable power-levels as well. I actually feel bad when I play online using higher end characters, and generally I play Darkness Knight who is considered the weakest of the level 6s from the initial releases. I simply have such an advantage over players without access to characters with levels above 3 that it is a bit ridiculous in a game that touts itself as being competitive. When playing the physical version, we tend to draft, and generally that, along with not having a lot of the characters like Goultard, helps a bit with the balance.

Quote:
I highly disagree with the last sentence I quoted. All level 1 characters should be equal in power to all other level 1s. All level 2s should be equal in power to all other level 2s. and so on for all the levels. Now it's not really possible to get everything 100% in power level but it should be a goal to make them as close as possible.


At the least, as many characters as possible should be equally viable for competitive play, if this is going to be considered a competitive game. Currently, the variety of different teams is tiny, in part because the pool of figures available is small, even smaller if only considering figures easily available to the general public, but also because games with team/deck building rely on good synergy between cards/units to be interesting.

I like Krosmaster Arena the game and the mechanics, but there is very little interesting synergy between the units. Some is forced, such as the knights and some of the new figures, but otherwise, making a good team generally ends up being simply putting the best individual units for specific point values together, rather than units that actually work together in a way that sets them a part from other combinations. Perhaps this will change with more releases.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
kevin duda
United States
fremont
California
flag msg tools
Kirenx wrote:
making a good team generally ends up being simply putting the best individual units for specific point values together, rather than units that actually work together in a way that sets them a part from other combinations. Perhaps this will change with more releases.


I could agree with you here. It's a young-ish game, and it takes a little while to grow into organic strategies. I did come across an interesting build, I think I mentioned, with figures that damage themselves to hit harder, and figures that heal in AOE. They started way back in one corner and forced me to come to them, and just made it so hard to chew through the health and heals, especially since my forward team was far from their support, that I couldn't figure out how to win. The game needs more of this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Riley
United Kingdom
Woodford Green
Essex
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jugglervr wrote:
I did come across an interesting build, I think I mentioned, with figures that damage themselves to hit harder.
Level 1s with 3 fire as starting damage, and 7 health. These are as much in need of fixing as level 6s. Admittedly they have to get to the right spot, but as they move as far as the vast majority of other characters this hardly seems a major drawback.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
kevin duda
United States
fremont
California
flag msg tools
Temeraire wrote:
Level 1s with 3 fire as starting damage, and 7 health. These are as much in need of fixing as level 6s. Admittedly they have to get to the right spot, but as they move as far as the vast majority of other characters this hardly seems a major drawback.

I found it easy to keep them down by denying one AP per turn, but it took inordinate effort incommensurate with what should be required to neutralize a lvl 1 (on the other hand, you don't want lvl 1s to be useless, either)

but the team I mentioned didn't use Coa. It was mostly quentin for damage (similar problem with him, I realize)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.