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Warhammer: Diskwars» Forums » General

Subject: quick wins rss

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Tom Haesendonckx
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Hi all,

I'm wondering if anybody else has got this issue:

In the games we have played so far, it was Always clear from turn 2 at who was going to win.

Last game, for example, I hae a volley gun on a hill, a crossbow unit next to it and the emperor right behind them.

Some other units within med-long range.

Because of a play that moved activation counters from activated units to non-activated units and a card that allowed a hero to remove an activation counter, my volleygun got to fire 3x without my opponent having the opportunity to do much about it.

I killed his 2 heroes, which was my objective.

The game was over on turn 2.

This was, however, not the first time we had this.

Does everyone have this problem or are we doing it wrong?

Kind regards,

Tom

 
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Verro Diabolico
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Hi Tom,
Is not clear to me why you said "the game was over on turn 2". You have your objective which give you victory points, but then you have to compare them versus the ones of your opponent at the end of the game (turn 5 or one army completely destroyed). I guess you had the generalicide objective, so you take all the 10 points the objective could give you, but then your opponent could still win destroying all your army, killing more than 10 units (I guess it would be the same of destroying all your army) or overlapping your deployment zone with more than 2 units, depending on the specific objective he had.
As far as I usually is not over until is over (but yes, in some games, expecially versus the orcs, could happen that is over in 2 / 3 turns...).
 
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Tom Haesendonckx
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I had exactly 10 units in my army in the example that I gave.

So, once I killed my opponent'ds heroes - scoring 10 points, it was mission impoosible for him to eliminate my army.

He didn't know that I had this objective, but still, I did now...so I knew there was no way for him to win.
 
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Verro Diabolico
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He could still win the game if kills all your units (you are immeditely eliminated by the game when lose all your units), or if his objective is not related to killing your units. Without 2 heroes at turn 2 is quite difficult, but not impossible.
 
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Camelorn
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Silverwings wrote:
I had exactly 10 units in my army in the example that I gave.

So, once I killed my opponent'ds heroes - scoring 10 points, it was mission impoosible for him to eliminate my army.

He didn't know that I had this objective, but still, I did now...so I knew there was no way for him to win.

By eliminating you he would have won with no need to count victory points.
Also with the deployment objective he might have been able to score 10 or more pints.
And even with the hero objective a draw would have been in his reach.
But i admit, that sounds like a steep uphill battle with both heroes lost and no casualties on your side.
 
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Rafael K.
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I had a game yesterday that went somewhat similar. I played High Elves with Teclis and Tyrion, Bolt Thrower, two Archers and 1 Maiden Guard. Rest was some melee.

He went with Chaos, Archaon and Kairos, Bloodthirster, Hellcannon etc. I won initiative and chose to be second, getting the hill, which I used to place nearly all of my stuff upon. He placed the rocks and a large forest quite well right in the middle to get in there and get cover. Both his heroes got Scout and went into the rocks.

The scenario was Generalcide and I also got the only other card that gave 5vp per enemy hero. That in itself was pretty much in my favour right from the beginning. And since I figured Kairos with his ability to reinforce the bloodthirster in medium range, which would've meant nearly right in my face, I chose to target him with all I got and the Morag Hai card. Well, needless to say, I killed him with one archer and the maiden... Overall my rolls were average, but I killed 3 disks, while his cannon managed to kill the High Mage, which was giving all my disks resistant to arcane damage, which the Cannon does.

We played that LOS is in both directions, since otherwise I do think High Ground is quite overpowered.

At the end of round 2, I was able to pin some Kurgan with Tyrion, my Spearmen pinned one flamer with some damage on him, which meant he was about to loose 2 disks without any casualty for my troops. Therefore he chose to concede.

I wouldnt say that it was an absolutely finished match, but it was really hard for him to win I think. A really good bloodthirster might have been his saving grace, but there are quite a few things I could've done to mitigate that. First, he would have to activate him fist, otherwise the chance to potentially hit him with activating range was still high, or I might have been able to pin him. And if he does that, I could've pinned the Bloodthirstes with pretty much everything else I had and probably kill him, before he would have killed the disks underneath him.

Overall I have the feeling that range attacks can be really really strong, even with average rolls. In two games the Elves obliterated the enemy just with their range attacks.
 
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Nushura
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How did you kill the 2 heroes on turn 2? You had incredible rolls with your siege unit?Gave them a wound each turn? Or was it because he was charging like crazy?
 
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Tom Haesendonckx
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I'm not debating that he COULD possible, if he eliminated my undamaged army completely, still draw or win.

The possibility of this happening is very VERY small though.

Which is a bit my point: if this happens too often, I would have a problem with it.

Now, I hope that, given some more experience with he game, players will become more aware of the possibilities and prevent them from happening.

After all, the idea is that the game is tense not that it's a walk over.
 
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Tom Haesendonckx
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Nushura wrote:
How did you kill the 2 heroes on turn 2? You had incredible rolls with your siege unit?Gave them a wound each turn? Or was it because he was charging like crazy?

I rolled 3 dice with the volley gun. Each hit cause 1D6 hits.

I got to shoot 3x times. Only 1 shot actually lucked out with 3 hits. all other rolls were normal.

Furthermore I had 2 pistoliers units (with mobile and scout and a deployment that was already at long range), right next to his units.

On top of that missile units -due to the scenario card - fires with an extra die.

So, the pistoliers could also fire with 3 dice, each hit causing 3 wounds.

Unless I'm mistaken, one of his heroes had only 4 damage to get 1 wound, so it went rather quickly.
 
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Verro Diabolico
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I understand your concerns Tom, however with Rain of Arrows scenario and your opponent with a well placed Hellblaster it is mandatory to protect your heroes using very strategically all the terrains and command cards.
Just one question: did you consider that you can do just 1 wound during a ranged attack, no matter how many damage you roll? It was an error we made at the first games (ie Hellblaster, 3 hits, 4+2+6 vs an Hero with toughness 5= 2 wounds i/o 1).
Despite your rolls were average you were lucky to not lose the hellblaster (3 shoots with 4 dice are very sensible to autodamage...) and the pistolers (usually when they roll a scatter there's good probability to kill themselves...).
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Tom Haesendonckx
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I didn't know that...but if I recall correctly, there was no single attack that caused 2 wounds.

It was more like a wound and 3 hits, a wound and 4 hits,...I think the 3 shots from the volleygun actually cause 3 hit in total + a number of wounds.

The last wound of the 2nd hero was caused by a pistol shot that caused 3 damage.
 
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Chris D
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If a single attack cause more damage than the stamina of the hero, the damage in excess is discarded, this may be what you did wrong...
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Rafael K.
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Not sure if I misunderstand, and you probably did play it right. Just to clarify, it doesn't matter how much damage is inflicted in a single damage opportunity, everything leads only to one wound. The overspill in damage is ignored.

For example, one ranged attack does 6 damage vs 5 toughness, this leads to one wound and nothing more. You do not place one wound marker and another damage token on the disk.

But multiple ranged attacks from different sources (or a reactivated source) can inflict multiple wounds per round. Same goes for melee if there is a different time window, as it happens with swift and slow attacks.
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Tom Haesendonckx
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aha...we did keep the damage. shake

so that would partly solve the problem arrrh
 
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Rafael K.
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Its a huge help for heroes to make them a little bit more resilient. Otherwise the whole wound mechanic would not be as necessary.
Printing toughness 10 for example would be stronger, since then you have to kill a hero in one turn, otherwise he will be healed at the end of one turn anyway.
 
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Verro Diabolico
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Silverwings wrote:
I didn't know that...but if I recall correctly, there was no single attack that caused 2 wounds.

It was more like a wound and 3 hits, a wound and 4 hits,...I think the 3 shots from the volleygun actually cause 3 hit in total + a number of wounds.

The last wound of the 2nd hero was caused by a pistol shot that caused 3 damage.
Ok, so probably all the wounds inflicted were correct. Yes, what you say could happen and as far as I know Hellblaster is really, really a strong ranged unit (unfortunatly it is really used to autodamage as well).
However, you say this kind of situation already happened, can I ask if it was similar in all the game already "doomed" at turn 2? Just to understand if it something related to the ranged phase and with specific units/strategy.
I think that with experience it will be more difficult to have such situations (At the beginning I always lose every game vs orcs... just take some time before understand how beat that army...).
 
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Tom Haesendonckx
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I remember a game from last week with boar boyz + grom with a command card that made them relentlesss...

This also ended the game on turn 2.

If i recall correctly this was in combination with a caster that performed a kind o farea spell that destroyed most empire troops on turn 2.

Anyway, I do agree that experience in this game teaches you a lot. to me, that is a plus, because at first sight, I thought the game was too simple.
 
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Rafael K.
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You said it yourself. Experience might help.

Yesterday in a tutorial game I got three disks crushed by the boar boyz, just after one flip. He did not have relentless up. Obviously I could have played that better, by positioning my disks differently.

Most of the time I see what I did wrong and quite often I realize after my activation turn is just finished, that there were better plays possible.

As for the what to do against the huge ranged assault, I am still clueless. Hopefully time will tell.
 
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Camelorn
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Silverwings wrote:

Anyway, I do agree that experience in this game teaches you a lot. to me, that is a plus, because at first sight, I thought the game was too simple.

Well, the mechanics are rather simple (my 8 year old son is able to grasp the basics) but it is also very deep from a tactical viewpoint.
 
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Maybe i missed it in the previous answers, but attacks at siege range only deal damage on critical hit result (one in 6).

In all our games so far, ranged units have been considered a bit weak.
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