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Subject: Deep game for casual-Group rss

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Benjamin von Allmen
Switzerland
Zuchwil
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hello.
i'm in a group with casualgamers. whe played ticket to ride, andor speicherstadt.
i will bring a deep game to the group, which she can get it.
i search also a deep game with easy rules.

i have thinked about navegador, antike, brügges and tzolkin. i own all of that expect brügges.

maybe you know more deep games with easy rules?
 
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Shane Larsen
United States
Salt Lake City
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My quick easy-rules, deep-gameplay list:

Kemet
Hansa Teutonica
China
Tinners' Trail
Modern Art
Acquire
Container
El Grande
Finca
Suburbia

...and last but not least...

Loopin' Louie!
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Bryan K
United States
Canton
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My gaming group is similar, the game I've had the most success with is:
Lords of Waterdeep - Simple rules with fair amount of strategy. The expansion really takes it to the level you seek.

Tzolkin is also good, but a little more challenging and a little more dry and slow in my opinion. Again, the expansion helps with that one too. But, it's more of a # cruncher brain burner.
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Jesse Winslow
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Upland
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Suburbia and Village are two that come to mind. Both have a nice depth and when you add their respective expansions, even more choices. Suburbia plays 1-4 and Village plays 2-4(5 with expansion).
 
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Lucas Smith
Germany
Munich
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Wie viele Spieler seid ihr?
Wie viele Seiten darf eine Anleitung haben?
Die Spiele auf deiner Liste sind schon eine ganz gute Auswahl! vllt noch Hamburgum (auch von Mac Gerdts)

(Sorry, German background was noticeable.)
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Benjamin von Allmen
Switzerland
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wir sind 5 spieler meist.
jo ich les sie, ich spiel meist viel schwierigeres zeug, jedoch ist die gruppe halt einfach einfache spiele gewohnt. ich suche auch nicht unbedingt gateway-games sondern einfache spiele mit einer möglichst hoher komplexität. das man einfach einsteigen kann aber es doch viele möglichkeiten gibt.
mac gerdt ist super, weiss einfach nicht obs zieht in der gruppe
 
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Lucas Smith
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Metamorphose wrote:
wir sind 5 spieler meist.
jo ich les sie, ich spiel meist viel schwierigeres zeug, jedoch ist die gruppe halt einfach einfache spiele gewohnt. ich suche auch nicht unbedingt gateway-games sondern einfache spiele mit einer möglichst hoher komplexität. das man einfach einsteigen kann aber es doch viele möglichkeiten gibt.
mac gerdt ist super, weiss einfach nicht obs zieht in der gruppe
Let me translate your answer into English, so that the others can give further advice

"We usually are 5 players.
Yes I read them (rulebooks), I mostly play difficult stuff, however, the group is used to easier games. I am not necessarrily looking for gateway-games, but easy games that are as complex as possible where you can easily join but at the same time there are many possibilities.
Mac Gerdts is super, Idk if his games suceed in the group"


I consider Shane Larsen´s list to be a valuable answer! Schau dir die an!
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Matt Gustafson
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American Rails has 4 pages of rules and some deep play.
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Eric Silva
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I have two recommendations: Dominant Species & Nations. Dominant Species is probably one of the best worker placement games around, and the rules are very easy to teach (best rulebook layout). Nations is a civilization game that does not follow the 4x genre (eXplore, eXploit, eXterminate, eXpand). Instead, it revolves around resource management. I would say this one is easier to teach because of its simple rules, but it is a viciously deep game. Both games support five players, but DS can be played with 6.
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Shane Larsen
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Bigmex75 wrote:
I have two recommendations: Dominant Species & Nations. Dominant Species is probably one of the best worker placement games around, and the rules are very easy to teach (best rulebook layout). Nations is a civilization game that does not follow the 4x genre (eXplore, eXploit, eXterminate, eXpand). Instead, it revolves around resource management. I would say this one is easier to teach because of its simple rules, but it is a viciously deep game. Both games support five players, but DS can be played with 6.

These games are commonly recommended when people request "simple rules". And I think it's a mistake. The reason for this is because even though both may have a lot of rules, the rules are all repeat rules from other common/popular games. So they are easy for experienced gamers to digest. But...to someone who doesn't have a lot of experience with other games, and has not been exposed to these mechanics, they're actually both very complex games.

An example of what I mean:

My father-in-law is an experienced gamer. Some of his favorites include Troyes, Brass: Lancashire, Agricola, and Terra Mystica. Over Christmas break, I introduced him to Nations. I was shocked at how rough it was for him to grasp the concepts in this game. I thought about it later, and realized he had never been exposed to any of my "lighter" civ-building games. He had no idea what "improving technologies" meant. He was confused about "upkeep" and how it worked with "production". It was unclear to him what it meant to "increase population". I was shocked how many things were complicated for him, simply because he hadn't been exposed to a civ-building game previously. I blame myself. But I also learned that the rules may seem easy to me, and other experienced civ-building gamers, but it's definitely a different story for someone with no little to no experience in the civ genre.

Dominant Species even more so. Sure, the worker-placement mechanic is easy to explain to new gamers. It's all the other parts of the game that add up to be a ton of overloading information to a new gamer. And in DS, I'm talking about a ton of different mechanics that all blend together. Now, once again. I do fine with it. Most my gaming friends did fine with it. And any experienced gamer will do fine with DS, because there's really nothing new here. It's just a smorgasborg of the same mechanics with which we're very familiar. But a new gamer? Nope. It will be too much, all at once. They're going to check out. I have an example of this one too:

My sister and her family love Cosmic Encounter, Agricola, Defenders of the Realm. I introduced them to DS. Big mistake. Half way into the rules breakdown, they said they felt like they're heads were going to explode. My sister even said, "I think I get each part when you explain it to me, but there are just too many different parts to it all to remember." They didn't like it.

Now, I'm certain that if I would have waited on this game, and taught them a few more games that taught them the same mechanics they would see here, they would have picked it up. But at that point, they would have been experienced gamers, not casual gamers.

I recommend you DO NOT try to introduce Dominant Species or Nations to casual gamers.
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Moe45673
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My "Light Rules, Deep Gameplay" game is Chicago Express. Plays 3-5 well, extremely simple rules, setup takes 2 minutes, games take 60 minutes, big colorful map, rulebook, and train pieces.

And then the game begins. Every game is different, endless depth. Negotiations, table talk, alliances, all the order of the day. The game only starts to feel cutthroat once players really know what they're doing. Your first game might feel dull and like the game has nothing else to offer.... that's because the game is completely player driven and only comes alive based off the players' actions. And as each player has a self interested goal (ie have the most cash in hand by game end), you will see in your second and onward games that the sessions will start to take on an exciting life of their own

Excellent and short review: http://boardgamegeek.com/video/2287/chicago-express/bestdang...

BIG +1 to Hansa Teutonica. It looks like a dry euro, but it's actually tons of fun. The rules aren't too difficult, once you get past the rulebook (print out player aids. I printed out one that you put under each player mat and helps you keep track of your personal supply of cubes and the general supply)

Best at 4-5, downtime is minimal, length of the game is reasonable as well (about 90 minutes, maybe less). There IS player interaction. I can't emphasize enough, the game is a FUN game, not just a satisfying euro.
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Jordan Fraser
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Moe45673 wrote:
My "Light Rules, Deep Gameplay" game is Chicago Express. Plays 3-5 well, extremely simple rules, setup takes 2 minutes, games take 60 minutes, big colorful map, rulebook, and train pieces.

And then the game begins. Every game is different, endless depth. Negotiations, table talk, alliances, all the order of the day. The game only starts to feel cutthroat once players really know what they're doing. Your first game might feel dull and like the game has nothing else to offer.... that's because the game is completely player driven and only comes alive based off the players' actions. And as each player has a self interested goal (ie have the most cash in hand by game end), you will see in your second and onward games that the sessions will start to take on an exciting life of their own

This is the first game I thought of when I read the post. It's one of those games where about half way through my first game I thought, "this is absolutely brilliant" (and I'm pretty sure everyone at the table shared my sentiment). So simple, but so deep, and the economy works in such an interesting way.

Also +1 to all of Shane's suggestions - spot on as usual.
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Tori Courtney
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I agree Mac Gerdts ist sehr toll, and I think Navegador could work for you. I might caution against Tzolk'in. The play is quite smooth but the rules take take a long time to explain (There are ~15 different actions to take, 4 tech trees, and a handful of ways to score). Navegador only has 7 actions and only one of them ("Privilege") is particularly complicated.

I think Goa or The Princes of Florence would also suit your needs well. The depth comes more from player interaction than from piles of rules.
 
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Stephen Jacobsen
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Poserdisposer wrote:
Moe45673 wrote:
My "Light Rules, Deep Gameplay" game is Chicago Express. Plays 3-5 well, extremely simple rules, setup takes 2 minutes, games take 60 minutes, big colorful map, rulebook, and train pieces.

And then the game begins. Every game is different, endless depth. Negotiations, table talk, alliances, all the order of the day. The game only starts to feel cutthroat once players really know what they're doing. Your first game might feel dull and like the game has nothing else to offer.... that's because the game is completely player driven and only comes alive based off the players' actions. And as each player has a self interested goal (ie have the most cash in hand by game end), you will see in your second and onward games that the sessions will start to take on an exciting life of their own

This is the first game I thought of when I read the post. It's one of those games where about half way through my first game I thought, "this is absolutely brilliant" (and I'm pretty sure everyone at the table shared my sentiment). So simple, but so deep, and the economy works in such an interesting way.

Also +1 to all of Shane's suggestions - spot on as usual.

I came to post this. Very good game
 
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Shane Larsen
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SJacobsen159 wrote:
Poserdisposer wrote:
Moe45673 wrote:
My "Light Rules, Deep Gameplay" game is Chicago Express. Plays 3-5 well, extremely simple rules, setup takes 2 minutes, games take 60 minutes, big colorful map, rulebook, and train pieces.

And then the game begins. Every game is different, endless depth. Negotiations, table talk, alliances, all the order of the day. The game only starts to feel cutthroat once players really know what they're doing. Your first game might feel dull and like the game has nothing else to offer.... that's because the game is completely player driven and only comes alive based off the players' actions. And as each player has a self interested goal (ie have the most cash in hand by game end), you will see in your second and onward games that the sessions will start to take on an exciting life of their own

This is the first game I thought of when I read the post. It's one of those games where about half way through my first game I thought, "this is absolutely brilliant" (and I'm pretty sure everyone at the table shared my sentiment). So simple, but so deep, and the economy works in such an interesting way.

Also +1 to all of Shane's suggestions - spot on as usual.

I came to post this. Very good game

I +1 Chicago Express as well. I didn't think of it because I only recently bought the iOS app and I've loved learning its nuances. The rules are indeed very simple. And I'm finding that the gameplay leaves a ton to discover. I will go on my easy-to-learn, deep-gameplay list in the future.
 
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