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Subject: Warning chits in Valley tiles - not removed in Realmspeak? rss

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Wiedewiet
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I noticed that in Realmspeak, after setup, the Warning chits in the Valley tiles stay in play and on the map tile. However, the rules say to remove them from play after the chits they represent have been placed on the map. Why are they not removed? And does it even matter (I'm still learning, so I can't oversee the implications of this yet)?

Edit - a related question: what is the use of the words 'Stink, Smoke, Ruins, Dank & Bones' on the Valley warning chits? Same question for the 'Stink' & 'Smoke' words on the Woods warning chits? If they serve no real purpose (as I suspect), then why keep them on the chits? Wouldn't it be easier to understand if there was only 'Chapel', 'Inn', 'Large Campfire' etc. on the chits?
 
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Peter Walsh
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The markers in the valley tiles have no effect on game play after they've been used to determine the locations of the dwellings/ghosts. I never took note that RS left them in place, but it doesn't matter as far as I can tell.
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Samuel Hinz
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Wiet wrote:


Edit - a related question: what is the use of the words 'Stink, Smoke, Ruins, Dank & Bones' on the Valley warning chits? Same question for the 'Stink' & 'Smoke' words on the Woods warning chits? If they serve no real purpose (as I suspect), then why keep them on the chits? Wouldn't it be easier to understand if there was only 'Chapel', 'Inn', 'Large Campfire' etc. on the chits?


Those sound and warning chit are how you determine whether denizens spawn or not. So for example yo are on a tile with a bones warning chit. You look at the no set chat or whatever it's called and look bones. The. You look to see if it is in the row currently prowling; if yes the monsters appear on the board, if not the. No spawning if monsters this round.
 
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Wiedewiet
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abodi wrote:
Those sound and warning chit are how you determine whether denizens spawn or not. So for example yo are on a tile with a bones warning chit. You look at the no set chat or whatever it's called and look bones. The. You look to see if it is in the row currently prowling; if yes the monsters appear on the board, if not the. No spawning if monsters this round.

I know, but this is not the case in the Valleys, since the chits are not there anymore during play. Same thing with the Large & Small Campfires: when the chit is revealed, it is removed from play. So, again, what's the use of the words 'Smoke, Stink, Ruins, Dank & Bones' when it would have been much easier to comprehend when the chits would just say 'Large Campfire', 'Inn', 'House', etc.?
 
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chuck dunn
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the year was 1979 is the only reason why they were left labeled that way that I can see .... R. Hamblen potentially had alternate set ups in mind when he labeled the chits but the game had grown to slightly complex levels for any early gamer to comprehend so any more alternates were cut.. I believe he had planned 32 different roles to play but that was nixed by the company as to expensive... any further editing was also nixed to get the game released would be my best guess.
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Jay Richardson
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Wiet van Bragt wrote:
So, again, what's the use of the words 'Smoke, Stink, Ruins, Dank & Bones' when it would have been much easier to comprehend when the chits would just say 'Large Campfire', 'Inn', 'House', etc.?

Thematic consistency, I would guess. Magic Realm is full of these little oddities, and they are part of its charm.

Thus, there are four sets of yellow warning counters, and each set contains the same five labels (Bones, Dank, Ruins, Smoke, Stink). You're correct that using the actual dwelling names would have made the chits easier to use, at least for beginners, but the labels do make sense: you would expect to find bones with the Ghosts, the House would have a fireplace with smoke, the Inn would certainly stink, etc. We memorized these very quickly and never gave them another thought. If the game was to be reprinted, I wouldn't want to change these labels, but adding the dwelling name to the appropriate counters (Dank V: Chapel) would be fine.

Also, keep in mind that the published game is only a portion of what Hamblen had planned to do, so a Ruins V chit might have been important for more than just placing the Guard house in rules sections that we've never seen. Maybe there were monsters that could appear in Valleys!

And yes, once the dwellings are placed their warning chits can be completely ignored; you can leave them on the map or remove them as you see fit.
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Wiedewiet
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Thanks guys, it's exactly as I suspected. Nice to have this quick confirmation. I especially appreciate the insight that the published version of the game is only half what Mr Hamblen had planned.

As you may or may not know, I've been the proud owner of a Karim redesign for almost 4 years now (on display here), and still I'm just scratching the surface of learning to play... I do feel I'm getting the hang of things though! I'm eagerly awaiting Mr Richardson's completion of the Book of Learning
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Steve Schacher

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The only impact that I can think of, and Jay may have an opinion on this, is that if you have the Map of Ruins treasure and you try to find hidden enemies at the tile with the Guard, then you still get the -1 roll advantage from the Map of Ruins on the Locate or Peer table.

Without the map, if you wanted to find hidden enemies, you would need to roll a 4, 3, or 1 on the Peer table. With the map's -1 advantage, a roll of 5, 4, 2, or 1 will find hidden enemies on the peer table.

Steve
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Jay Richardson
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Steve Schacher wrote:
The only impact that I can think of, and Jay may have an opinion on this, is that if you have the Map of Ruins treasure and you try to find hidden enemies at the tile with the Guard, then you still get the -1 roll advantage from the Map of Ruins on the Locate or Peer table.

Good catch! My previous comment about it being OK to leave these warning counters on the map is incorrect then, and rule 3.6.2 confirms it: when a yellow warning counter places a dwelling or the ghosts, it is removed from the map completely. If RealmSpeak doesn't do this, that would be a bug (albeit a really minor one).

My group always removed these counters... I just didn't think that there would be any possible effect on the game if you left them in place, but I forgot about the Map of Ruins.
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Steve Schacher

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An interesting question... the rules say that the dwelling warning chits are "exchanged" for the dwellings themselves. I guess that means that they are no longer in play, so that the Guard is not guarding a ruin, that the Inn is not stinking up the valley, that the fireplace in the House is not smoking.

Thematically, shouldn't the warnings still remain, and therefore, the map of ruins still advantage someone at the Guard?

Steve
 
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Jay Richardson
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Steve Schacher wrote:
the rules say that the dwelling warning chits are "exchanged" for the dwellings themselves.

The rules are actually more explicit than that: "...when the chit is turned face up it is removed from play..."
(2nd sentence of 3.6.2)

Steve Schacher wrote:
Thematically, shouldn't the warnings still remain, and therefore, the map of ruins still advantage someone at the Guard?

I would have no objection, and it does make some sense, but it's not what the rules say. It's highly unlikely that anyone would ever actually use the Map of Ruins at the Guard house if the dwelling warning chits remained in play... but that's not a problem as Magic Realm is positively overflowing with highly unlikely possibilities.


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Steve Schacher

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I know... all we need another one-off exception in a rare case on one tile...
 
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