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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Variants

Subject: What cards and ships are over or under-costed? rss

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Ralph T
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I have a small X-Wing collection but thought for casual play with people who don't own it, I would do a few paste ups to balance ships and cards which seem to be largely regarded as unbalanced due to being under or over costed.

The Tie-Advanced doesn't seem to make much sense cost-wise except for Vader who has a very strong skill. So for the other three other Tie Advanced pilots I could:
1) drop them two points each, or
2) drop them 1 point and add the sensor array to their upgrade bar.

It also seems like Push the Limit is possibly too good for its cost. Maybe this card shouldn't be changed since it benefits units like the A-Wing and Tie Interceptor, but Daredevil is a poor choice by comparison. Should I drop Daredevil 1 point or increase PtL point, or both?
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Nick Sibicky

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Your ideas are sound! I would also add....

Elusiveness = 1 pt.
Expose = 3 pts.
Autoblaster = 3 pts.
Arvel = PS 0 and add EPT
Tycho = 25 pts
Ten Numb = 30 pts
Rhymer = 25 pts
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Bob Duclos
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Do people do this for casual play? Everything I have heard is hypothetical talk, I wonder why I did not think of actually house-ruling it myself...
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Jeremy Steward
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Certain Pilots have additional costs for their abilities, but for some pilots, their abilities just don't warrant the extra cost.

Ibtisam should be at 27, Ten at 29 or 30, Rhymer should be at 24 (1 pt premium), and Tycho at 25.

I agree with Nick that Elusiveness and Expose are overcosted by 1 and Autoblaster by 2. Daredevil should cost 1 imo, and PTL should cost 4.

IMO A-wings in general are 1pt too expensive. I am hoping for a title in a repaint pack that adds a sensor icon. (One of which, I'm hoping allows for a ship to move as if it have pilot skill 0-cost 1)

Tie Advanced are at least 2-3 pts too high. Hoping for either a way to reduce cost (or free upgrades), or transition it to a support ship with strong abilities to warrant the cost.

Simply my opinion, but it is tricky - I once thought marksmanship was overcosted (like in wave 1), granted most of the things I mention have been underutilized for more than 1 wave.
 
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Michael Ptak
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You don't think A-Wings with Advanced Sensors would be overpowered?

An Autoblaster has a good chance of one-shotting a TIE Fighter. You think that's worth 3 points?

About the only thing I think is over-costed is the TIE Advanced, and that's because it can't do much. It's too expensive to be a missile platform and doesn't hit hard enough.
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Ralph T
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Despite its limitations, Autoblaster is a counter to Howlrunner swarms and reducing it to 3 might be too strong a buff to B-wings. Maybe 4 points is better. I could go along with expose being a 3 point upgrade since that will benefit Tie Advances and A wings the most. Elusiveness as a 1 point upgrade seems too strong. I could see the A-wing being over letter by 1 point once the next wave arrives but they are still a bargain compared to the default tie advanced which is 4 points more at one more pilot skill.

I also recommend adding the elite pilot upgrade to the tie advanced PS 4 pilots. You could put draw their fire on them cheaply as a poor man's Biggs.
 
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Jeremy Steward
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4 dice can one shot Tie Fighters too. Autoblaster nets you on average +1 average dmg vs 3 agi. I disagree that 3 points is too little for this very situational upgrade, but doesnt really matter

Speaking of Bwings, Blue squad should be 23, and dagger 25 imho, with ibtisam staying and Ten still coming down 1 pt.

and no, i dont think awing with advs will be overpowered. (tho possibly not overcosted at that point). AdvS doesnt net you offense which is what the awing needs (its an offensive ship with no firepower).

I do agree that almost as crippling as the cost on the Adv is the fact that anything it can do, can be done better by something else. That is why I would like it to be transitioned to a support ship. (Add in a new support action ept for vader and have new pilots have strong supportive skills)

An idea for a support ept could be: Action: Spend a focus token and gain a stress token to give all ships within range 1, +1 atk for the remainer of the round. cost 5.
 
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Ralph T
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You're right, the Autoblaster trades four dice for three dice. 3 pts is appropriate. In fact it probably should have been a 4 attack dice card at 5 cost.
 
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Adrian Sperling
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Deadwolf wrote:
Speaking of Bwings, Blue squad should be 23, and dagger 25 imho, with ibtisam staying and Ten still coming down 1 pt.


Seriously, you figure blues and daggers are undercosted? I don't think a bare b-wing is that great, they only really come alive with advanced sensors. So maybe advanced sensors are under costed?
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Jeremy Steward
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Then you haven't played enough naked B-wings, specifically when you compare it to a rookie. The Bwing survives on average 1 attack more than the rookie, you gain a massive benefit for that 1 point difference.
 
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Joseph Woodworth
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I think systems on an a-wing do not work. It seems like a good idea, and just trying out adv sensors makes them crazy maneuverable. Problem, is taking a squishy and semi expensive ship and adding even more cost. Green with ptl and adv sensors is 25, and you're still at 2 attack.
 
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Ralph T
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One of the issues of the two ships which are underpowered, A-Wings and Tie-Advances, is that they are not costed for their synergy with the fleet but rather their overall ability to survive. Putting down hits on the enemy is important, avoiding hits when you're not an attractive target, is not.

There ought to be an EPS that replicates Bigg's ability, maybe a Draw their Fire for normal attacks. This would go a long ways to balancing defensive ships with low attack.
 
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Jeremy Steward
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Running Interference:

After an enemy declares a target, if this ship is within the same firing arc and closer to the enemy, you remove an evade token to declare this ship to be the target.

Cost: 2

(I thought it was too powerful without the remove the evade token part)
 
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Bob Duclos
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Is evade token require or is it "remove evade token (if there is any)"
 
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Ralph T
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Deadwolf wrote:
Running Interference:

After an enemy declares a target, if this ship is within the same firing arc and closer to the enemy, you remove an evade token to declare this ship to be the target.

Cost: 2

(I thought it was too powerful without the remove the evade token part)


That's fairly tough to use so I could see that working. Alternately you could have a 1 or 2 point EPT where:
"If you are in the line of fire of friendly ship that is being targeted, the attacker must either target your ship or discard a focus token." [Small ships only]"
 
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Jeremy Steward
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ghostbusterbob wrote:
Is evade token require or is it "remove evade token (if there is any)"


The idea was that it required an evade token and you must remove it. Its a round about way of requiring an action, tho more restrictive.
 
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Ralph T
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I think Fel's Wrath is overcosted by a point. It's 2 points more than a Saber Squadron pilot, for 1 PS improvement, loss of an elite talent, and a weak ability that lets it not be removed from the board until the end of the round (which only means a chance to fire if it is destroyed by a higher PS pilot), an activity that has at most a 50% chance to result in one last free attack.

It appears Luke may be overcosted as well, by 1 point. He's 2 PS more than Garven, has a less useful talent, yet is 2 points more than him. 2 PS is worth 1 point.
 
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Chris L
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ralpher wrote:
I think Fel's Wrath is overcosted by a point. It's 2 points more than a Saber Squadron pilot, for 1 PS improvement, loss of an elite talent, and a weak ability that lets it not be removed from the board until the end of the round (which only means a chance to fire if it is destroyed by a higher PS pilot), an activity that has at most a 50% chance to result in one last free attack.


Or Saber Squadron pilot is undercosted by 1 point. It's 1 point for adding the elite icon and 1 point for the increment of the pilot skill. A Saber is only 1 point more than an avenger but gets both an elite icon and a PS increment.

ralpher wrote:
It appears Luke may be overcosted as well, by 1 point. He's 2 PS more than Garven, has a less useful talent, yet is 2 points more than him. 2 PS is worth 1 point.


No. 1 PS = 1 point. You have to include the cost of an elite icon when calculating PS costs. So Luke adds an elite icon for 1 point plus 2 points for the added PS for a total of 3 more points. The talent is arguable as to whether it's worse or not but if it is, then that takes off a point. I think Luke is costed about right or slightly undercosted.
 
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Ralph T
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igelkott255 wrote:
ralpher wrote:
I think Fel's Wrath is overcosted by a point. It's 2 points more than a Saber Squadron pilot, for 1 PS improvement, loss of an elite talent, and a weak ability that lets it not be removed from the board until the end of the round (which only means a chance to fire if it is destroyed by a higher PS pilot), an activity that has at most a 50% chance to result in one last free attack.


Or Saber Squadron pilot is undercosted by 1 point. It's 1 point for adding the elite icon and 1 point for the increment of the pilot skill. A Saber is only 1 point more than an avenger but gets both an elite icon and a PS increment.

ralpher wrote:
It appears Luke may be overcosted as well, by 1 point. He's 2 PS more than Garven, has a less useful talent, yet is 2 points more than him. 2 PS is worth 1 point.


No. 1 PS = 1 point. You have to include the cost of an elite icon when calculating PS costs. So Luke adds an elite icon for 1 point plus 2 points for the added PS for a total of 3 more points. The talent is arguable as to whether it's worse or not but if it is, then that takes off a point. I think Luke is costed about right or slightly undercosted.


I think Saber is not undercosted--the Royal Guard will be 2 PS and 1 more point than Saber, and 1 less point than Fel's Wrath. It is Fel that is overcosted.

You might be right about Luke. Do you think Wedge could be undercosted a point?
 
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