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Subject: Update #52 Current State of Shipping 3 Kickstarters rss

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Erik Stanfill
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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/miniongames/hegemonic-4...

I was totally understanding throughout this campaign, but I can't defend Minion anymore. It's a lost cause now, this has gone from "stuff happens" to total mismanagement to a tee.

As one who opted to and paid extra get Hegemonic early, I'm on the last of the list to get my coin order. Now I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get my full coin order, as the update states I'm last in line.... over the "LATE BIRDS "who purchased Hegemonic well after I backed it. I ordered a specific distribution to use in other games.

The coins shouldn't have been on sale on the website in the first place. I could've lived without the Hegemonic bags, personally.

I don't get why I should feel the consequences of people not filling out backerkits correctly. They should should be the ones getting their coins last, IMHO.

So if I get a notice for a paypal refund because they can't ship a full order, I'll likely opt out all together and demand a full refund, and I'm glad I didn't pony up for the Go7 box. What a mess.

I'm kinda venting here, and I'm sure there are others who haven't even gotten their game yet. A learning experience overall, though. It's not a slam on kickstarter as a whole, just a note on what not to do...

Don't combine two campaigns. Don't manage your own shipping/fulfillment. Limit options. Make sure your backers get their stuff before you sell it on your website.
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James Dalley
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I am in the same boat as you. I have defended Minion for a long time. I felt sorry for them because of all the flak they were getting because like you said, stuff happens. It sucks but that's life... However as soon as I saw this update, that was the final straw for me. Why am I last to get my order? Seriously? And now I won't even be getting all of it?

Though I will note that part of their problem was when they used a different company for shipping and fulfillment for those of us that paid extra for Hegemonic.
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Aaron Cohen
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Yeah, it's hard to defend this one.

You guys paid extra cash, and they messed up.

It sucks for them, but from a customer service perspective, I really think their response should have been an abject apology in your coin delivery and shipping the missing coins out on their dime in the next coin order. (With an offer of a refund for the missing coins if you prefer).

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Michael Smythe
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Wait, you guys already have your copies of the game? I'm Canadian, who made the stupid decision to wait for the coins to save on shipping. I was told a week ago that the Canadian orders were already being shipped, now I find out they haven't even started shipping them to us. If that is the case, I'm tempted to just see about getting a refund on the whole deal and washing my hands of Minion Games. There are other game companies out there, I don't have to depend on any one company when there's more than enough flavors of 4x games out there.
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Its like the scene from The Blues Brothers when John Belushi is on his knees and is trying to tell Carrie Fisher that standing her up wasn't his fault.
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Rick Vinyard
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remleduff wrote:
I really think their response should have been an abject apology in your coin delivery and shipping the missing coins out on their dime in the next coin order. (With an offer of a refund for the missing coins if you prefer).

Isn't that exactly what they did? In the linked post, they explained that they have had a 20% loss of stock to USPS, offered a refund now, or if you want to wait they'll work with you.

A 20% loss to USPS is pretty huge. I would be surprised if even food-stuffs suffered transportation losses like that.
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Kickstarter, backers, stretch goals, exclusives, late games, risk money, promos, ...

Aren't you fed up yet? whistle
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James Dalley
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GeoMan wrote:
Kickstarter, backers, stretch goals, exclusives, late games, risk money, promos, ...

Aren't you fed up yet? :whistle:


Personally, this has been my only bad experience with board games on kickstarter, and to be honest delayed games isn't a unique problem to kickstarter look at Caverna as a recent example. Honestly, I always add a four month buffer on the kickstarter delivery time.
 
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James Mathe
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If you wish a full refund best to say so BEFORE we ship. We'll gladly issue it. But if you take the partial shipment you'll have to send it back on your dime if you want a full refund.
 
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Nicholas Vitek
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Regarding Hegemonic, whats the status of shipping the game for US customers who backed both separately (Hegemonic for just the game, Coins for just the coins) and filled out the BackerKit right away?
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Kevin Brown
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I'm hoping I can get any coins that I may end up missing included with my dragon coins shipment, and if I can't it's not the end of the world I suppose. I Can't get that worked up over it.
 
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RPGShop wrote:
If you wish a full refund best to say so BEFORE we ship. We'll gladly issue it. But if you take the partial shipment you'll have to send it back on your dime if you want a full refund.
Thats a helluva attitude to have there James. Way to throw gasoline on a fire.

Based on my experiences with the Hegemonic project, it has been forever tainted by the bumbling mismanagement of the Futuristic Coins KS by James Mathe and synonymous to Minion Games.

Granted, Hegemonic the game, as a stand-alone KS project, has turned out favorably. How ironic is it that the initial KS backers who helped the Hegemonic project surpass its $85K stretch goals, thereby enabling the Futuristic Coins, are going to bear the brunt of the coin shortages.

The failure of the Futuristic Coins project, unfortunate as it is, does affect my opinion of the Hegemonic project. Sorry, Oliver but these two projects should never have been intertwined.

I fully acknowledge that I backed the Futuristic Coins project for additional coins and that is the ultimate reason for my dissatisfaction with the management at Minion Games. So, the rest of my comments will be directed there.

Ultimately it is James Mathe, owner of Minion Games who should be held accountable for these failures. I haven’t experienced a KS project this screwed up since the Cambridge Games Factory debacle with the Glory to Rome Black Box edition. While the G2R:BB KS project was ran extremely poorly, Ed Carter at least had the integrity to follow through and make personal sacrifices in the process of completing the project.

James has made a series of management missteps that have taken a tenable situation and turned it into a major fiasco. How he has mismanaged the distribution of the Futuristic Coins to the backers of both projects has destroyed the slim shards of respect I held for him and Minion Games.

• Hegemonic backers should have had their rewards, 50 metal CAP tokens coins (35 ones, 15 fives) first. They should have been allocated and reserved for the backers of the game regardless of when the coins arrived, what quantities were lost in the mail, or how many additional coins each backer purchased.
• The Futuristic Coins backers should have been fulfilled based on a logical and fair system of allocating the remaining inventories of Futuristic Coins.
• “Late Bird” backers who bought Hegemonic through the Futuristic Coins project fall way down the list of fulfillments.
• Definitely selling any limited coin inventories on the open market is indefensible given there was not a complete understanding of available coins to fulfill the above criteria.
• The persistent negative attitudes that James has directed at the customers of these ill-fated projects are unforgivable.

I’m undecided about how I’m going to proceed with my decisions about these Minion Games projects. I've received my copy of Hegemonic with the tiny bags and still have a few outstanding rewards, so no substantial worries there.

However, I have paid $110 to back the Futuristic Coins project for the promised reward of 500 coins. Because of the large quantity of coins I ordered, I was also required to pay an additional $15 for extra handling fees. If I do not get my 500 coins, at a minimum, I’m going to request a refund on this additional shipping fee form Minion Games.

At a minimum, James should be informing any backers what level of fulfillment of their orders they will be receiving before he ships them to his customers. I’m sure I won’t be the last to comment on these latest developments.
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Erik Stanfill
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RPGShop wrote:
If you wish a full refund best to say so BEFORE we ship. We'll gladly issue it. But if you take the partial shipment you'll have to send it back on your dime if you want a full refund.


Fair enough. I'll send my paypal info soon.
 
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Erik Stanfill
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Jdlly wrote:
GeoMan wrote:
Kickstarter, backers, stretch goals, exclusives, late games, risk money, promos, ...

Aren't you fed up yet? whistle


Personally, this has been my only bad experience with board games on kickstarter, and to be honest delayed games isn't a unique problem to kickstarter look at Caverna as a recent example. Honestly, I always add a four month buffer on the kickstarter delivery time.


It's not really a "kickstarter thing" for me, and it's not about delays. Delays happen. I can live with delays. This is about biting off more than you can chew and then making bad business decisions overall to course-correct, such as making excited backers who paid extra for shipping wait behind those folks who haven't filled out forms correctly (and were likely confused to all get-out anyway) or jumped on the game later, and telling same inital backers that they probably are not gonna get their full order. This isn't my first kickstarter campaign I've participated in, and won't be my last. Heck, who knows, I may even purchase another Minion game in the future (Hegemonic is a beautifully-done production)... but I'll wait until it hits retail shelves.
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Mark O'Reilly
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I was extremely vocal recently over all this, probably a little harshly to be fair.
It is very apparent that James has had an awful time with particularly the coins.
I think James would be the very first to admit the game and coins should never of been intertwined.
I took the time to look over all updates on kick starter ( should be re-named "kick- off" starter for this project now lol), I did see on a couple of occasions James holding his hands up and acknowledging that he isn't the best spokesperson, the best candidate to deal with the correspondance.
Yes he has put his foot in it on a few occasions with updates ( who hasn't ever put their foot in it before).
It is frustrating , but it is only a game and game coins after all and pales in comparison to other problems , seriously - it does.

It is so easy to vent on here, but I do see a guy (James) that is getting it from all sides.
Yes there are loads of mis haps, but I for one wouldn't swap places with James or the small Minion team right now.
It is common knowledge that Minion are probably going to come out of this worse off than when they started, they are hardly going to make any money and brand Minion will need to take stock.
These guys have/are working around the clock to get this stuff out, it wouldn't be so bad if they got everybody everything they ordered, but clearly that is not going to happen - lots of mistakes.

After a very public venting on here, I worked with James via email and he has (very quickly) sorted out everything for me.

I have received Hegemonic now ( sorry to those that still have not) - and WOW , it simply is stunning production values and the one thing that struck me is this game was too cheap ( another mistake?) , I mean seriously , the amount of game could easily command another £10/$16.5 per unit, simply going on similar sized games at present.

I have been unfortunate to have one kick starter where I got nothing, but James IS going to sort everyone out one way or another in the end.

Like I say , I know it's frustrating and annoying - but Minion and James are under a mountain of stress at present.

They are a very small operation, definately offered too much , but everyone must know there is no scam going on here, definately hap hazard organisation and the biggest losers are certainly James and Minion - this is those guys livelihood.
After my vocal venting, working with James and seeing he is a decent guy under a lot of stress and genuinely doing his best to sort out this mess, my opinion has changed.
I see a guy in it for the love of the hobby, offered way too much for way too little cost and now getting tons of flack because it all can't be done.

Just some things to reflect on.
I don't wish any conflict with anyone, just thought I would chip in with my experience.
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Couldn't have said it better myself, Mark.

I'm impressed: its not at all easy to do what you've done. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of folks I've seen do this, and have plenty of room to spare.

thumbsupthumbsup
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biffta wrote:
I was extremely vocal recently over all this, probably a little harshly to be fair.
It is very apparent that James has had an awful time with particularly the coins.
I think James would be the very first to admit the game and coins should never of been intertwined.
I took the time to look over all updates on kick starter ( should be re-named "kick- off" starter for this project now lol), I did see on a couple of occasions James holding his hands up and acknowledging that he isn't the best spokesperson, the best candidate to deal with the correspondance.
Yes he has put his foot in it on a few occasions with updates ( who hasn't ever put their foot in it before).
It is frustrating , but it is only a game and game coins after all and pales in comparison to other problems , seriously - it does.

It is so easy to vent on here, but I do see a guy (James) that is getting it from all sides.
Yes there are loads of mis haps, but I for one wouldn't swap places with James or the small Minion team right now.
It is common knowledge that Minion are probably going to come out of this worse off than when they started, they are hardly going to make any money and brand Minion will need to take stock.
These guys have/are working around the clock to get this stuff out, it wouldn't be so bad if they got everybody everything they ordered, but clearly that is not going to happen - lots of mistakes.

After a very public venting on here, I worked with James via email and he has (very quickly) sorted out everything for me.

I have received Hegemonic now ( sorry to those that still have not) - and WOW , it simply is stunning production values and the one thing that struck me is this game was too cheap ( another mistake?) , I mean seriously , the amount of game could easily command another £10/$16.5 per unit, simply going on similar sized games at present.

I have been unfortunate to have one kick starter where I got nothing, but James IS going to sort everyone out one way or another in the end.

Like I say , I know it's frustrating and annoying - but Minion and James are under a mountain of stress at present.

They are a very small operation, definately offered too much , but everyone must know there is no scam going on here, definately hap hazard organisation and the biggest losers are certainly James and Minion - this is those guys livelihood.
After my vocal venting, working with James and seeing he is a decent guy under a lot of stress and genuinely doing his best to sort out this mess, my opinion has changed.
I see a guy in it for the love of the hobby, offered way too much for way too little cost and now getting tons of flack because it all can't be done.

Just some things to reflect on.
I don't wish any conflict with anyone, just thought I would chip in with my experience.


+1
And I don't have my copy of Hegemonic or my coins yet, supposedly they should be here next few days.
This KS has been a logistical nightmare and everybody's nerves are pretty frayed by now, but this isn't Katalyka, Odin's Ravens, or Up Front. Is James a good PR person? Yah, not so much. Is James surly? Yes indeed, James seems pretty surly right now. Fine by me. There is a good chance I'd be surly in his situation as well.
The important thing to me, and one of the reasons I would potentially back another Minion project, is James has been pretty straight forward and pretty communicative. At no time has James been deceptive or deceitful during this process. Right now he is being forth coming and taking his lumps and doing his best to rectify the situation.
The other reason I'd potentially back another Minion project is that I think James has learned quite a bit from this KS and I'd hope future projects would go much smoother.
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rvinyard wrote:
remleduff wrote:
I really think their response should have been an abject apology in your coin delivery and shipping the missing coins out on their dime in the next coin order. (With an offer of a refund for the missing coins if you prefer).

Isn't that exactly what they did? In the linked post, they explained that they have had a 20% loss of stock to USPS, offered a refund now, or if you want to wait they'll work with you.

A 20% loss to USPS is pretty huge. I would be surprised if even food-stuffs suffered transportation losses like that.


It's very hard to know what "work with you" means. Based on past experience, I (admittedly) jumped to the conclusion that it means they'll require paying the extra shipping cost.

In any event, the major problem with this is that Minion Games has now pissed off their most enthusiastic fans. A business should be pleasing its most loyal fans, not people who jump on late and can't fill out orders correctly. Isn't that obvious?

I'm not among that group, I was willing to wait for my coins. Oddly enough, I'm even mostly positive about how the campaign has worked out for me personally.

I just find it hard to come up with any good reason for why people who jumped on early and then jumped on again with even more cash are the ones being screwed.

It's also interesting to note that the only apology in that update was about how long everything was taking. People not receiving what they backed isn't worthy of an apology?
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biffta wrote:
I was extremely vocal recently over all this, probably a little harshly to be fair.
It is very apparent that James has had an awful time with particularly the coins.
I think James would be the very first to admit the game and coins should never of been intertwined.
I took the time to look over all updates on kick starter ( should be re-named "kick- off" starter for this project now lol), I did see on a couple of occasions James holding his hands up and acknowledging that he isn't the best spokesperson, the best candidate to deal with the correspondance.
Yes he has put his foot in it on a few occasions with updates ( who hasn't ever put their foot in it before).
It is frustrating , but it is only a game and game coins after all and pales in comparison to other problems , seriously - it does.

It is so easy to vent on here, but I do see a guy (James) that is getting it from all sides.
Yes there are loads of mis haps, but I for one wouldn't swap places with James or the small Minion team right now.
It is common knowledge that Minion are probably going to come out of this worse off than when they started, they are hardly going to make any money and brand Minion will need to take stock.
These guys have/are working around the clock to get this stuff out, it wouldn't be so bad if they got everybody everything they ordered, but clearly that is not going to happen - lots of mistakes.

....

Like I say , I know it's frustrating and annoying - but Minion and James are under a mountain of stress at present.

They are a very small operation, definately offered too much , but everyone must know there is no scam going on here, definately hap hazard organisation and the biggest losers are certainly James and Minion - this is those guys livelihood.
After my vocal venting, working with James and seeing he is a decent guy under a lot of stress and genuinely doing his best to sort out this mess, my opinion has changed.
I see a guy in it for the love of the hobby, offered way too much for way too little cost and now getting tons of flack because it all can't be done.

Just some things to reflect on.
I don't wish any conflict with anyone, just thought I would chip in with my experience.


I agree
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James Mathe
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Nich wrote:
Regarding Hegemonic, whats the status of shipping the game for US customers who backed both separately (Hegemonic for just the game, Coins for just the coins) and filled out the BackerKit right away?


We call this H+C and they were shipped 2 weeks ago. You should have it by now.

However if you paid for early delivery or picked up at a convention then you're in the H+C_Already Shipped Heg category which is just being processed starting today.

But looking at your backing, you are actually in the category of H+C+D which is all 3 campagins (including dice) and they have not shipped yet. Probably start those next week.

Sorry for the delays, but we're shipping every day.

James
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Lurkfish wrote:
I'm hoping I can get any coins that I may end up missing included with my dragon coins shipment, and if I can't it's not the end of the world I suppose. I Can't get that worked up over it.


We are ordering more Future Coins and they will get shipped to us at the same time Dragon Coins are.

This will be the best solution for those not choosing refund who also backed the Dragon Coins. It'll be a pain to get it organized, so feel free to nag when we say we get our Dragon Coins in from China, but it would be great to just include your missing Future Coins in that box.

James
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biffta wrote:

After my vocal venting, working with James and seeing he is a decent guy under a lot of stress and genuinely doing his best to sort out this mess, my opinion has changed.
I see a guy in it for the love of the hobby, offered way too much for way too little cost and now getting tons of flack because it all can't be done.


I'm very happy you gave us a chance to make things right. I think you hit the nail on the head with much of what you said. We overreached- but we're not here to rip anyone off. In the end you ARE getting some awesome products.

And I love you accent! Thanks for doing the unboxing videos.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/video/40983/hegemonic/hegemonic...

James
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Kudos, Mark, for making a graceful climb-down. You're a gentleman and a scholar.
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Mark O'Reilly
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Thank you
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RPGShop wrote:
Lurkfish wrote:
I'm hoping I can get any coins that I may end up missing included with my dragon coins shipment, and if I can't it's not the end of the world I suppose. I Can't get that worked up over it.


We are ordering more Future Coins and they will get shipped to us at the same time Dragon Coins are.

This will be the best solution for those not choosing refund who also backed the Dragon Coins. It'll be a pain to get it organized, so feel free to nag when we say we get our Dragon Coins in from China, but it would be great to just include your missing Future Coins in that box.

James


I didn't back Dragon Coins. Are you going to cover the shipping costs for missing coins from this campaign when you receive replacement inventory?
 
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