Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
14 Posts

Race! Formula 90» Forums » Rules

Subject: Section activation and contest (again..) rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Emanuele P.
Italy
Cappelle Sul tavo (PE)
Pescara
flag msg tools
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sorry for my question, but I don't understand the activation yet.

I make this example (very similiar to fig.2 pag.11): the leader Alan moves first and laps Carl, arriving in the same corner section of Carl and place his car ahead Carl. Now the section to activate is the one with Alan e Carl and it's Carl's turn. Why there's no contest between Carl and Alan? Why Carl have to spend 2 movement point to pass Alan?

The rules says that a player who have already played his turn can defend against a contest, so I think that since the leader moves to this section, the sectione is activated and so a contest is made. Wrong?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Case
England
Epsom
Surrey
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
https://www.facebook.com/amuse.ment.92
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Because Carl hasn't had a turn yet. If there was a contest and Alan won, Carl would forfeit his entire turn. A contest is for cars that are in the same space at the same time, they are 'contesting' to get ahead of each other.

Why does he need to spend 2 points to unlap himself? Because the rules say that you have to. Page 11;

UN-LAPPING
A lapped driver can try to un-lap himself if he wishes so. Rules for un-lapping are the same as for lapping: in a straight and in a braking section the car must spend 1 movement point to unlap, in a corner the car must spend 2 movement points to unlap or wait for a contest in the following turn.


Remember that each move is a lap PLUS the spaces moved. Alan isn't contesting the lead with Carl, Alan is a lap ahead.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Emanuele P.
Italy
Cappelle Sul tavo (PE)
Pescara
flag msg tools
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
you've explained very well. thanks :D
So when I have to check a contest, I have to consider only cars that are contesting each other, perfect.

What make me doubt it's the sentences in the rules thath says that a player who have already played his turn can only defende in a contest. When this situation happens? I think never...

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alessandro Lala
United Kingdom
Weston-Super-Mare
Somerset
flag msg tools
designer
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
badge
Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pjojo wrote:

I make this example (very similiar to fig.2 pag.11): the leader Alan moves first and laps Carl, arriving in the same corner section of Carl and place his car ahead Carl. Now the section to activate is the one with Alan e Carl and it's Carl's turn. Why there's no contest between Carl and Alan? Why Carl have to spend 2 movement point to pass Alan?

The rules says that a player who have already played his turn can defend against a contest, so I think that since the leader moves to this section, the section is activated and so a contest is made. Wrong?


Sorry to disprove Nick, but Lele is totally correct.
Every time a corner section is activated a contest takes place if there is more than one car in there. It does not matter if the cars have already played their turn or if they have different number of laps. Just follow the contest procedure starting from the last car in the section as fully explained in the FAQ. Robots participate in the contest only under certain rules and cars that have already played their turn can only defend.

In the example at page 11 fig.2 it is assumed that Carl has declined to participate in the contest (suppose that he wants to keep his cards or that he does not want to risk damage). The purpose of that paragraph is really to explain the un-lapping rules, not contest. Apologies if this created confusion.blush

Alessandro
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Emanuele P.
Italy
Cappelle Sul tavo (PE)
Pescara
flag msg tools
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Greenskid wrote:

Sorry to disprove Nick, but Lele is totally correct.
Every time a corner section is activated a contest takes place if there is more than one car in there. It does not matter if the cars have already played their turn or if they have different number of laps. Just follow the contest procedure starting from the last car in the section as fully explained in the FAQ. Robots participate in the contest only under certain rules and cars that have already played their turn can only defend.

In the example at page 11 fig.2 it is assumed that Carl has declined to participate in the contest (suppose that he wants to keep his cards or that he does not want to risk damage). The purpose of that paragraph is really to explain the un-lapping rules, not contest. Apologies if this created confusion.blush

Alessandro


ok, so I was right.

But if instead there are Carl (lapped), Alan (leader who have already played) and Bob; there' no contest because Alan split the corner in two sections and so Carl can only spent 2 movement points pass Alan, unlap and stop behind Bob, right?

in this last example Carl is in great disadvantage, in my opinion.if I may say, i want to give an advice to make the rule more clear.

the basic rule is that a player who have already played his turn can only defend in a contest. so if we consider fig.3 in pag.12 (where Alan is between Carl and Bob), I,d play a contest: if Carl jois the contest, Alan can defend and if Bob joins too, Alan can go first in the section if wins the contest. then take turns Bob and Carl who are forced to spend 2 movement points if want to pass Alan.

in this way the leader is encouraged to lap the first car so he can join the contest and slow the Bob too. if instead he chooses to stay back to Carl, when The section will be activated at the end of the turn, he cannot join the contest because he can no attack in a contest, having played yet.

furthermore, if the leader is between two robots, one lapped and one no, there's no contest because the robot in the last position don't join the contest since never do it to unlap, and the leader can't attack in a contest, having played his turn yet.

what do you think?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alessandro Lala
United Kingdom
Weston-Super-Mare
Somerset
flag msg tools
designer
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
badge
Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
yes, Carl has a disadvantage, that's the price to pay for being overlapped.
I see your point but I cannot agree with the proposed rule.
This situation was rehearsed and discussed extensively during playtesting.
The key point to keep in mind is that the leader has to pay for lapping other cars. If you follow a different approach you give the leader a free opportunity for lapping, which we don't want.

If you wish, please feel free to continue this discussion off line by writing me privately.
ciao
Alessandro
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alessandro Lala
United Kingdom
Weston-Super-Mare
Somerset
flag msg tools
designer
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
badge
Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's rare but could happen sometimes, especially if several players have different pit stop strategies.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Emanuele P.
Italy
Cappelle Sul tavo (PE)
Pescara
flag msg tools
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Greenskid wrote:
yes, Carl has a disadvantage, that's the price to pay for being overlapped.
I see your point but I cannot agree with the proposed rule.
This situation was rehearsed and discussed extensively during playtesting.
The key point to keep in mind is that the leader has to pay for lapping other cars. If you follow a different approach you give the leader a free opportunity for lapping, which we don't want.

If you wish, please feel free to continue this discussion off line by writing me privately.
ciao
Alessandro


in fact in this way the leader could have an advantage. Ok I think the official rule is better. :D
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pablo DC
Spain
Madrid
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Greenskid wrote:
pjojo wrote:

I make this example (very similiar to fig.2 pag.11): the leader Alan moves first and laps Carl, arriving in the same corner section of Carl and place his car ahead Carl. Now the section to activate is the one with Alan e Carl and it's Carl's turn. Why there's no contest between Carl and Alan? Why Carl have to spend 2 movement point to pass Alan?

The rules says that a player who have already played his turn can defend against a contest, so I think that since the leader moves to this section, the section is activated and so a contest is made. Wrong?


Sorry to disprove Nick, but Lele is totally correct.
Every time a corner section is activated a contest takes place if there is more than one car in there. It does not matter if the cars have already played their turn or if they have different number of laps. Just follow the contest procedure starting from the last car in the section as fully explained in the FAQ. Robots participate in the contest only under certain rules and cars that have already played their turn can only defend.

In the example at page 11 fig.2 it is assumed that Carl has declined to participate in the contest (suppose that he wants to keep his cards or that he does not want to risk damage). The purpose of that paragraph is really to explain the un-lapping rules, not contest. Apologies if this created confusion.blush

Alessandro


Hi! I have another question regarding contests.

Let's say that there are three human cars in a corner section, one of them is the leader. When the section is activated a contest take place. Once the contest is resolved, the new leader moves away from that section. My question is....When the turn arrives again to the first corner section, where the two other cars are, is another contest resolved? Or the positions from the first contest are kept and the cars are ready to move?

Thank you and sorry for my english!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stan Hilinski
United States
Laurel
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
This came up in another thread. For the purpose of talking here, suppose we start with a contest in section A. The leader moves to section B. B is now the current section.

If we have a contest in B or in any section leading to A, then yes, we do have another contest in A. But if no contest happens in B or in between, then no second contest happens in A.

Fortunately, the "double contest" situation rarely happens.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
René Christensen
Denmark
Solroed Strand
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It puzzles me how there can be a contest in B before A?
Shouldn't the contest in B wait for the next turn/round?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stan Hilinski
United States
Laurel
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Slotracer wrote:
It puzzles me how there can be a contest in B before A?
Shouldn't the contest in B wait for the next turn/round?


Because the leader moved to B. It is now the current section. (The current section follows the leader.) So we activate it and do a contest there if necessary. Usually no contest happens because the trailing cars in that section are usually robots, and the leader cannot challenge a contest because he has just moved.

There are some bizarre and rare situations though where something different happens. For example, imagine that the leader (red) moves from A to B, and B has two human-controlled cars there (blue and green). Section B now looks like this from front to back: blue, green, red (leader). Is there now a contest there? Who moves next? And what happens when we circle the track with activations and return to B?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pablo DC
Spain
Madrid
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
shilinski wrote:
This came up in another thread. For the purpose of talking here, suppose we start with a contest in section A. The leader moves to section B. B is now the current section.

If we have a contest in B or in any section leading to A, then yes, we do have another contest in A. But if no contest happens in B or in between, then no second contest happens in A.

Fortunately, the "double contest" situation rarely happens.


I did not see the other thread. Sorry for asking it again and thank you very much for you answer
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.