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Eldritch Horror» Forums » Rules

Subject: Epic Monster Question rss

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Zachary Power
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Hello,

My wife and I have a disagreement about how a Mythos card, A Proposition, would effect an Epic Monster that was spawned from a Rumor Mythos card. A Proposition, has an event that states "The Lead Investigator may gain a Dark Pact Condition to immediately solve 1 RUMOR Mythos in play." When she got this the RUMOR card, Web Between Worlds, which spawns the Spinner of Webs Epic Monster on Space 9. That card also goes on to state that when it is defeated, solve this RUMOR.

Our dispute comes from how the Event from A Proposition plays out. My opinion is that if the Lead Investigator chooses to gain the Dark Pact and solve the RUMOR, the Spinner of Webs Epic Monster will stay out because it was never defeated, and the Event just says solve the RUMOR. It seems to me that defeating the Spinner of Webs is a way to solve the RUMOR, but using the Event from "A Proposition" is another way to solve the RUMOR, but it doesn't have any effect on the Spinner of Webs.

My wife thinks that when you solve the RUMOR, the Spinner of Webs is discarded as well because it is part of the RUMOR. She points to the updated Eldritch Horror FAQ under Clarifications where it states:

When resolving a Mythos card, all elements of the card must be resolved if possible. If a Mythos card's effect is to resolve an additional Mythos card, all elements of that additional card must also be resolved.

I think thematically, what my wife is saying makes sense, but just going by what's on the cards, I disagree with her.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this particular issue?

Thanks.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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The monster stays in play. The fact that it was spawned by a Mythos card is irrelevant. The Mythos card also spawns clues (I think) but you couldn't really argue that the clues should be removed...

Similarly, you might have drawn a mystery that causes investigators to lose health, causes expeditions to be removed from the game, and so on. If you solve the rumor, you don't reverse all of this. The rumor leaves play, but all the effects that already triggered will persist.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I also reckon the Epic monster stays in play. However, if the Rumor placed Rumor tokens on the board, then you do remove those. The Reference Guide (under Rumor) says:
EH RG wrote:
When a Rumor Mythos card is solved, discard it, all tokens on it,
and the corresponding Rumor token.

So I reckon that is all you should do.
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Gubisi Róbert
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If I were you I would remove the Epic monster from the play.
For me solving this rumour = defeating this monster (as the card states). I think for a Dark Pact with the Devil/AOO you definetly solve the whole rumour.
And do not forget: "happy wife happy life"!
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Gubirobi wrote:
If I were you I would remove the Epic monster from the play.
For me solving this rumour = defeating this monster (as the card states). I think for a Dark Pact with the Devil/AOO you definetly solve the whole rumour.
And do not forget: "happy wife happy life"!

But Eldritch Horror's rules don't work that way. For example, discarding and closing a gate do exactly the same thing, but discarding a gate will not trigger any effect that occurs when a gate is closed.

The rules also state that Epic Monsters can only be defeated by doing damage that matches or exceeds their toughness. Solving the Rumor does nothing to the Monster's Health, so it should stay put.

In other words, even though defeating the Monster would solve the Rumor, solving the Rumor does not defeat the Monster. They're not equivalent and the card does not state that; what it does state is that one causes the other, and that is a one-way relationship.
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Gubisi Róbert
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Clipper wrote:
Gubirobi wrote:
If I were you I would remove the Epic monster from the play.
For me solving this rumour = defeating this monster (as the card states). I think for a Dark Pact with the Devil/AOO you definetly solve the whole rumour.
And do not forget: "happy wife happy life"!

But Eldritch Horror's rules don't work that way. For example, discarding and closing a gate do exactly the same thing, but discarding a gate will not trigger any effect that occurs when a gate is closed.

The rules also state that Epic Monsters can only be defeated by doing damage that matches or exceeds their toughness. Solving the Rumor does nothing to the Monster's Health, so it should stay put.

In other words, even though defeating the Monster would solve the Rumor, solving the Rumor does not defeat the Monster. They're not equivalent and the card does not state that; what it does state is that one causes the other, and that is a one-way relationship.


I liked to show a different opinion not just quoting rules and references.
In my EH world if an investigator gain a Darc pact condition (which can cause serious effects later) to resolve a rumour he/she earned to remove the Epic monster of this rumour.
It is a different and not better or worse way of playing.
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Mariano Rico
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I believe that all tokens related to the Rumor card solved are discarded, including the Epic monster tokens. If not, then Tick Tock men would have to stay on the board when the rumor is solved by running out of Eldritch Tokens, for example.
 
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Ari Rusakko
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Gubirobi wrote:
I liked to show a different opinion not just quoting rules and references.
In my EH world if an investigator gain a Darc pact condition (which can cause serious effects later) to resolve a rumour he/she earned to remove the Epic monster of this rumour.
It is a different and not better or worse way of playing.


This is the Rules forum where rules are discussed as they are described in the official rules. Do not confuse people with your own preferences, the Variants forum is the place to do that.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Gubirobi wrote:
I liked to show a different opinion not just quoting rules and references.
In my EH world if an investigator gain a Darc pact condition (which can cause serious effects later) to resolve a rumour he/she earned to remove the Epic monster of this rumour.
It is a different and not better or worse way of playing.

I have no problem with house ruling, but you probably should indicate your answers are such if you are answering questions in this forum. This is the Rules forum and when people are asking a question here, they generally want to know if the rules cover their situation and how to go about it. As you didn't indicate that your method was your own preferred way to play, it thus sounded like you were trying to say your way matched the rules, which it doesn't, so that did need to be pointed out.

Acererak wrote:
I believe that all tokens related to the Rumor card solved are discarded, including the Epic monster tokens. If not, then Tick Tock men would have to stay on the board when the rumor is solved by running out of Eldritch Tokens, for example.

I think the Tick Tock Men should stick around in this case too. It doesn't really hurt anything to have them stick around, and you don't deserve to have a tough monster discarded from the board if you waited long enough for their effect to activate. It also might be the case that a player actually wants to still defeat he monster (perhaps they get a bonus for defeating monsters or something).
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Gubisi Róbert
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Quote:
I have no problem with house ruling, but you probably should indicate your answers are such if you are answering questions in this forum. This is the Rules forum and when people are asking a question here, they generally want to know if the rules cover their situation and how to go about it. As you didn't indicate that your method was your own preferred way to play, it thus sounded like you were trying to say your way matched the rules, which it doesn't, so that did need to be pointed out.


OK! Next time I will write my comments in this forum using my knowledge from the rulebook, the reference guide and discussions during played games.
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Zachary Power
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I don't have the card in front of me, but with the Tic Toc Men, if you wait for the mythos rumor card to remove the clues:

1. I don't think the Tic Toc Men are discarded
2. I don't think that particular mythos card is resolved because there is no mention of discarding this card after the clues are removed. It actually seems like a pretty nasty rumor card because it seems like the only way to get rid of it are defeating the Tic Toc men or getting the Mythos card A Preposition and trading a Dark Pact to solve the Rumor (which still leaves the Tic Toc Men out).
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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The rumor is solved when the tokens are gone, as per the official FAQ/Errata.
But they make no mention of removing the Tick Tock Men.
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Daniel Honig
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goldeneyez -

Check the official errata. The Rumor is solved once it goes off.
 
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Zachary Power
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Gotcha. I actually printed out the FAQ/Errata, but never checked that. I just assumed that was the game trying to screw you over.
 
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