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Subject: Passing rss

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Bradley Hays
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I'm doing my first play-through to try to understand the rules before I play with a group and there is some confusion about the passing action.

For example, Purple has decided to pass as there is little better to do and so he takes the second spot which allows him to either take 3 Reals OR to move 1 of his workers to a city spot following the usual rules, according to Capitalia. So does this mean:

1) he must pay the current cost (there is a single die showing a 2 on the Capitalia spot, so does that mean he must pay 8 (in a 4 player game)?? Luckily, he has 10)
2) he must have at least 1 worker on the 2 side of the island since Capitalia requires presence in the 2 (Luckily he does have a single worker)?
3) if he had 2 more workers on the 2 side of the island could he then add 2 people to the city and get 3 Prestige (following the usual rules)?

This seems kinda expensive being that people are taking turns and have not placed all the dice that they might have later. I just wondered if the passing action meant you didn't have to pay the cost or have presence as you typically do. In this case, Purple already has an action block in the Capitalia spot so he will be able to do it later anyway, and there doesn't seem to be any advantage in doing it now. He won't have enough money to do it a second time later anyway so it would probably be better to just take the money, or possibly another action. Does this all make sense? Am I understanding the passing action correctly?
 
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Michael Denman
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No to nearly all of that.

It means to read what that building does assuming you were placing only one man. Thus, you place one in the city and you get 1 VP.

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Matthias Nagy
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Hi,

it is really a no to all three questions. Following the usual rules means:
- You earn one Prestige Point, and then decide if you want to move one worker into the city.
- You earn 1 PP even you do not move someone into the city.
- You may only move that worker on an empty city spot
- You earn no resources for that.

So it is effectively as easy as it would be expected.

Matthias Nagy
from What's Your Game?
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Dave Gray
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Sorry I am late to this thread but I've only just learned the game. It's great by the way.

Just to clarify on the last reply...

With reference to selecting a passing spot on the passing column The "usual rules" are specifically related to the placing workers but NOT receiving the associated benefit that you would normally get during a turn (building actions, or other bonus related to kings rewards etc).

That is that PLACEMENT should be done following the usual rules but nothing else associated with the action of doing so.

Therefore when passing- when placing a worker in the city, you do just that as long as you follow the placement rules but NOT receiving any goods assocuiated with the city of choice.

And I assume then that this is also true for placing a boat - place a boat paying one wood if from your home - Do you have to pay the associated goods with where you put it? But then you do NOT receive a Kings Reward if it is a colony and reals if it is the market.

Flowing from that the remaining choice... OR - you place a worker on the city watch but you do NOT receive -3 pirates bonus for doing so.

If this is the case I think that future print runs need to address this in the rules. Because "following the usual rules" means that you follow the usual rules associated with that worker placement or boat - the rules do not say to follow the "placement" rules only and do not specify NOT to receive the associated worker placement goods, resources, reals or subtraction of pirates. I agree it is semantics but it would make a difference to the clarity of this rule and I think it is the basis for the confusion. I'm surprised that there is only one thread on it to be honest.

I would appreciate a response confirming the above. Certainly will make things harder. I'd also like to teah the right rules!
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Paul Cockburn
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The_Rooster wrote:

Just to clarify on the last reply...

That is that PLACEMENT should be done following the usual rules but nothing else associated with the action of doing so.



This is not at all the way we've played it. When you pass you can either collect reals or you can take one of the three following actions (if that space is still available):

* Place one of your workers in a city and earn a point.
* Pay goods (and wood if necessary) to place a boat and take the associated reward.
* Place one of your workers in the city watch and discard 3 piracy.

The above is surely what the three symbols mean. You get the same symbols elsewhere such as on the buildings (where additional iconography indicates they are linked with the number of workers in the area) or on guild tokens or on the King's Rewards. It all seems pretty clear to me.
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Dave Gray
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Interestingly What's Your Game has released a revision of the rules:

(I went looking because I didn't think anyone would reply here.)


http://www.whatsyourgame.eu/downloads/Madeira_rules.pdf

Page 9 mentions passing as per the previous rules. But the detail regarding "when a player passes has moved the the reference sheet where it states how to perform the passing actions, which part of the main rules to reference and the main rules are now segregated more clearly.

In the reference sheet it now specifically states which part of "the usual rules to follow". In addition where say a "movement rule" is stipulated say for the watch tower - in the main body of the rules the Movement Rules are now separate and bold. As part of the movement rules you do get to discard up to 3 pirates. This is fantastic as it is a lot clearer.

Contrasted with this is say the passing action of the IV slot - it states to:

"The player gets 5 Reals -
OR - moves 1 of his Ships
following the usual rules (See page 10, Commander)"

Which means you place the ship (pay one wood if required) then take the reals or reward associated - as per the usual rules of the Commander character action.

Passing action II only allows you to place a worker but not receive any goods. As it states to follow the movement rules part only. Much clearer in my opinion.

Have a look yourself - I think this makes it a lot clearer in the new rules. It is also how I think they should have been written first off. I just thought it was a bit misleading in the original rule set. I'm going to print out the new rules as they clear up a few things.
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Mike Geller
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First off, I agree with Paul.

The_Rooster wrote:
Because "following the usual rules" means that you follow the usual rules associated with that worker placement or boat - the rules do not say to follow the "placement" rules only and do not specify NOT to receive the associated worker placement goods, resources, reals or subtraction of pirates.



I don't think you're reading the rulebook carefully enough. Looking at it:


Madeira rulebook wrote:
The player gets 2 Reals

The player gets 3 Reals - OR - earns 1 PP, and may move 1 of his Workers to any empty City spot (see page 13, Capitania for the movement rules).

The player gets 4 Reals - OR - moves 1 of his Workers into the City Watch (see page 13, Fortaleza for the movement rules).

The player gets 5 Reals - OR - moves 1 of his Ships following the usual rules (See page 10, Commander)


The only passing action described as "following the usual rules" is the ship, which indeed does follow the usual rules. The other two actions follow the "movement rules."

When you check the relevant rules, there's nothing about the Capitania which says anything about gaining resources. The Fortaleza movement rule does describe the three pirate discard.

The passing rules do seem clear to me, but I would have put in examples of them for reinforcement. Sure, they could have said the second passing action is equivalent to a small Captain action and nothing at all like a Mayor action, but it is hard to anticipate every possible misreading.

Edit: Typing and pasting while feeding trick or treaters had me post after The Rooster already explained he was working from an old rulebook.

 
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Dave Gray
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Thanks for the response.

The new rules certainly make it a lot easier to understand for me. I'm a bit of a literalist when it comes to rules. It's the way my head works. I also appreciate that rules should not need to say something "not" to do, omission should be enough otherwise it all gets a bit complicated.

Given that the new rules are just that - more literal and do make it very clear. I'm glad they revised it.

Thanks Mike!
 
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