Recommend
25 
 Thumb up
 Hide
78 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Board Game Design » Board Game Design

Subject: [WIP 2P PnP] - DOGFIGHT -unleashed rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: Try [+] [View All]
János Décsei
Hungary
Budapest
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Update!

I've made a post at the end of the thread, there will be hopefully a digital version for PC, Mac, iOS and Android.
Please allow me to link the indiegogo page:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/dogfight-unleashed-a-tactical-card-game#/



dear fellow BGG-ers, I would like to share a boardgame idea with you.
It's a card driven, short, 2p, gateway wargame. (I hope I defined it correctly)



I've started designing this game completely backwards (as always)

- think of a theme (preferably a funny one)
- let the theme specify a game-mechanic (if it fits it sits)
- start designing the art (card layouts yippee!)
- create all the cards, tokens, board (this point I haven't even play-tested anything at all - half of them will be thrown away, the other half will be completely redesigned after the playtest)
- print everything and play
- throw away the unnecessary parts, realize what's missing, CHANGE THE ART for no particular reason...
- repeat the last three sessions till infinity (Why do I have to change the ink again in the printer and where are all the papers?)
- end up with a game in a drawer that never see the light again

The THEME this time is two fighting dogs in the air, in two WW1 planes fighting 1 on 1, so this couldn't be more dogfight than this, BUT! as I realized there are already "tons of" (like ten or so) dogfight named games in the BGG database so I need a little help: please help me renaming the game! DONE! Thank you guys, you helped me a lot!
It's a light card/wargame with some crazy effects, special weapons - for example you can attack your opponent with a guided pigeon holding a hand grenade! (Some of you may ask now if it's an African or European pigeon. First we should check what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen pigeon? Well, it's a simple question of weight ratios...)

Anyway, how should we call a crazy game about dogfighting dogs? I'm not completely against the word dogfight, but it's too dry and simple, i feel it's missing something.

Edit - sorry, forgot the link to the contest page, here it is:
2014 contest page
Submission page


The almost final versions...
components 1.4 (base+first expansion)
rules 1.4 (base+first expansion)
printer-friendly components 1.4 (base+first expansion)
printer-friendly rules 1.4 (base+first expansion)

The final (lighter) colored version:
components 1.5 (base+first expansion)
rules 1.5 (base+first expansion)
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gene Moore
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [WIP 2P PnP] - DOGFIGHT (or better)
I suppose calling it Snoopy and the Red Baron might lead to some IP issues.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J. M. Lopez-Cepero "CP"
Spain
Seville
Andalucia
flag msg tools
EU-friendly Kickstarters rule!
badge
"The twilight there holds a serene beauty... You have seen it yourself as the sun sets on this world."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [WIP 2P PnP] - DOGFIGHT (or better)
To The Last Bark?
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Wyse
Canada
Calgary
Alberta
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [WIP 2P PnP] - DOGFIGHT (or better)
Fighters Unleashed
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
János Décsei
Hungary
Budapest
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [WIP 2P PnP] - DOGFIGHT (or better)
WOW, such great suggestions, thank you guys!

You are spot on with the Red Baron: one of the players can play him. Very few people know he was actually a Doberman (mainly because it's not true).

How about:

Dogfight - to the last bark
or
Dogfight - unleashed

or should I loose the word and keep one of the the suggestions as it is?
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shaun Austin
Australia
Townsville
Queensland
flag msg tools
designer
I can still beat the Nemesis Beast!
badge
Solo Gamer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [WIP 2P PnP] - DOGFIGHT (or better)
I like Dogfight - Unleashed.
Then we have some naming opportunities for expansions ...
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Tharp
United States
Springfield
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Hobby game designer, please print and play my games!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [WIP 2P PnP] - DOGFIGHT (or better)
Dogfight - Unleashed sounds good to me.
I really like the concept of the game, also the graphic design is pretty amazing.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Lewis
United States
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Re: [WIP 2P PnP] - DOGFIGHT (or better)
Unleash the war of dogs.

The dogs to end all dogs.

The Rabid Baron.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tanner Griffin
United States
Ogden
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mb
Re: [WIP 2P PnP] - DOGFIGHT (or better)
Michael Vick Bought an Airplane
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Thompson
United States
Centerville
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [WIP 2P PnP] - DOGFIGHT (or better)
I think just Dogfight without a subtitle.

The graphic design looks awesome. Very interested to see where you go with this.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremy Peet
United States
Milford
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [WIP 2P PnP] - DOGFIGHT (or better)
Hows about:

Flying Chihuahuas

Bark Attack

Watch Your Tail

Growling Aces

Kings of 9 (K9)



Subscribed by the way, I'll be watching!

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mariusz Kosecki
Poland
Elbląg
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: [WIP 2P PnP] - DOGFIGHT (or better)
Yes, the graphics look awesome!
I'm also for just "Dogfight".

Germflinger wrote:
Growling Aces
But this one sounds cool as well!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
János Décsei
Hungary
Budapest
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thank you guys for the help, I may need it again with the rulebook whistle

I'm pretty sure will steal more of your name ideas when I make expansions for this game. If I make expansions. First I need to finish this one.

I created all the necessary game files EXCEPT the rules. (link in the first post) Sigh. It's freaking hard man!

I linked the 1.0 version of the rules too, sorry for the delay. I'm not good with wording rules, so if anyone can spot a mistake there (or anywhere in the game files, cards etc.) please share it with me.



4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
János Décsei
Hungary
Budapest
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So, a couple of thoughts about the files submitted:

- I consider the cards and tokens finished, maybe a small change on the texts if they are not clear enough or made a typo etc.

- I made round tokens they are best mounted on 1" wooden discs. Do you guys think it s good as is, or should I make hex-tokens? The problem with hexes I wont have enough space to align them to be easy to cut.

- I'm not found of the board, may change it but only the graphics, the mechanic will remain the same. Again, if there is some misspelling or other mistakes made, I will fix them. Does anyone have an idea how can I make it look better?

- The rules are the worst part. I just can't write clear enough. Keep babbling on unimportant things missing the main stuff. What do you guys think, where should I adjust the rules? Where are the white spots?


About the game:

Don't let the 1.0 version number distract you, it is the fourth iteration of the game. Made a lot of playtests with my wife 'till I reached this state. The first idea was to simulate more closely the speed and maneuverability of these old planes: there were no 2 units rotating and fast movement cards, burst fire or counterattack, no special cards... It was a disaster. It was painfully slow and boring. The second version had better maneuverability - I made it over the top unfortunately and it still missed the fun part. The third version had some of the special cards and that made all the difference! I removed the combined "moving and turning" cards I made in the second version (I may add them back later but they need a lot of tuning to make them work right). I put more special cards in this fourth version and adjusted the number of the different cards in the deck. Everything works right now (at least in my book) so I gave the 1.0 version to the game as it is playable and working as it is intended. Only small changes are expected now, based on your feedback.

I suggest you remove all the (orange) wind cards and the (yellow) special cards for the first few plays from the deck to get used to the movement and shooting on the board. At least it was hard for me to predict where my plane token would move, I always had to rotate my movement card in my hand according to the current direction of my token to be able to see where I would move. Silly me. Altough I'm not a wargamer, I'm used to card only games so you probably are much better at this than me.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
János Décsei
Hungary
Budapest
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I updated the rules to 1.1 version with the enormous help from
Ryan Tharp
United States
Springfield
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Hobby game designer, please print and play my games!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Thank you Ryan!

By the way check out his funny microgame idea for this contest here.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
János Décsei
Hungary
Budapest
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
hello guys, just a quick question - would anyone prefer an "ugly but printer-friendly" version of the game?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nate K
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
yannes wrote:
hello guys, just a quick question - would anyone prefer an "ugly but printer-friendly" version of the game?

Yes please!
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Celina
United States
University City
MO
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
The After School Park Game Club played this today. Our questions:

-Can the pigeon grenade take out the cat or the heavy artillery?

-Does the cat move?

-Can the pigeon stack with other special tokens (so can it land on other things)

I got completely trapped in one corner of the board, my opponent made good use of the pigeon grenade and close combat. I liked it, and the art is simply charming. It took us a few turns to get the wind direction down, mostly because we'd forget about it. I liked the damage & pigeon cards, it was an easy way to keep track of where we were.

The rules were a bit confusing, half way through we went to the end & read the summary, which helped a bunch.

The whole game fits in a sandwich baggie, which makes it a good candidate for the After School Park Game Club.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Warman
United States
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
So are you actually going to make a version with black and white art because that would enable me to play the game. Colored ink is a privilege I do not have.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
János Décsei
Hungary
Budapest
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bryan and Nate, thanks for the interest, yes I'm currently working on the black and white version, just finished with the board and the movement cards, it takes a bit more time than I thought.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
János Décsei
Hungary
Budapest
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Celinashope wrote:
The After School Park Game Club played this today. Our questions:

-Can the pigeon grenade take out the cat or the heavy artillery?

-Does the cat move?

-Can the pigeon stack with other special tokens (so can it land on other things)

I got completely trapped in one corner of the board, my opponent made good use of the pigeon grenade and close combat. I liked it, and the art is simply charming. It took us a few turns to get the wind direction down, mostly because we'd forget about it. I liked the damage & pigeon cards, it was an easy way to keep track of where we were.

The rules were a bit confusing, half way through we went to the end & read the summary, which helped a bunch.

The whole game fits in a sandwich baggie, which makes it a good candidate for the After School Park Game Club.

Wow Celina, I am extremely grateful for the feedback! Yes, rule writing is not my strong suit, so if you have any suggestions how can I make it a bit "clearer" please share it with me.

It is a small game putting in a sandwich baggie is a good idea. It also could fit into a pencil case, I just started working on a "Dogfight in a tin version". The front page of the rule is good for boximage too:

It's a tin pencil case slightly smaller than an A5 paper. I've redesigned the rules to fit in the box (link in my first post).


For the questions, rule clarification:


First and third question:
- the pigeon doesn't go for anything but the opponent's plane and cannot step in an occupied space (other than the opponent's plane of course) Except this token, nothing can/should collide with anything on the board. If some other token is in the way the pigeon should go around.

- My first thought was the pigeon doesn't deal damage to other special tokens but I'm not so sure anymore. - This is a very good question! Should it deal damage to other special tokens? What do you think would be better?

Second question:

- the cat doesn't move neither the artillery (only rotates) but I was thinking about it. How about when the wind direction changes these tokens also move one space accordingly? It could make sense and could give the wind cards another strategic layer - when these extra tokens leave the board because of the wind, they can be taken out of the game until someone plays them again. On the other hand I don't want the game to be too fiddly. So not sure. What would you prefer?

Thanks again for the feedback!

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Celina
United States
University City
MO
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
My worthy opponent sent this in:

Quote:
I think the pigeon should deal damage to special tokens. If it can take out both planes, why not special tokens?

I like the idea of the special tokens affected by the wind. You can just say at the end of your turn all of your special tokens move one space with the wind. This could also be when your pigeon moves that way you don't have to remember to move the pigeon at the beginning of the opponent's turn.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
János Décsei
Hungary
Budapest
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Celinashope wrote:
My worthy opponent sent this in:

Quote:
I think the pigeon should deal damage to special tokens. If it can take out both planes, why not special tokens?

I like the idea of the special tokens affected by the wind. You can just say at the end of your turn all of your special tokens move one space with the wind. This could also be when your pigeon moves that way you don't have to remember to move the pigeon at the beginning of the opponent's turn.


Thank you and your worthy opponent for the great remarks!

I think we may have a different understanding how the wind works in this game. In your interpretation when you play a wind card it affects the whole board each and every space. With this logic it doesn't make sense why the different objects are not drafting away each round in the direction shown on the wind-card. But I think this would make the game too fiddly, you would have to move each object on the board every round.
Not to mention the special tokens would be affected by the wind twice as much as the plane tokens if they move in your turn and in your opponent's too.

I had a different view in this subject. I see the wind as a turbulent, chaotic force of nature. I see the board at a much larger scale, where every spot has a different wind direction and force. When you play a wind card it only affects your movement at that spot only. By coincidence it will change your opponent's movement too at a different spot on the board, but only if he/she doesn't play a different wind card before, which changes the direction of the wind in that spot. I don't want to simulate the wind in every space so I think of the different special tokens as they are in the exact spot at the exact time only when they can take effect on other objects. Other than that they may have moved away and back because of the wind, but I don't want the player to have to move them manually all the time. I hope it makes sense what I'm trying to say.

That being said, after a few testplays I made some changes to the rules according to your suggestions:

1. The pigeon's movement is not affected by the wind. Only the planes are affected nothing else.

2. You can discard the existing wind card in play by discarding two wind-cards from hand.

3. The pigeon flies toward the opponent's plane 1 space every time at the start of your opponent's turn. It can fly into occupied spaces by different tokens which will have different effects:

-if it lands on your own plane it moves with it when you move and then moves toward your opponent in his/her turn. If it explodes then you take 2 damage and the tokens next to you take 1 damage. Every special token that had any damage taken is removed from the play.
-if it lands on a heavy artillery nothing happens to the pigeon, it will move in the next turn. Of course if it explodes, then the tokens take damage as previously stated. The artillery doesn't rotate or deal damage as long as a pigeon is on top of it.
- if it lands on a cat decoy, the cat will eat it (any cat) and the grenade would fall down, not damaging anything. This way you only remove the pigeon from play. (Of course if the grenade explodes then everything takes damage as previously stated.)
I think I covered everything.

Thank you for the suggestions!
Hope you will like the changes.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Celina
United States
University City
MO
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Ooo! I like the cat eating the pigeon! We hadn't thought about that.

I like the changes, we'll try them out. You are right, we were thinking about the wind affecting everything all of the time.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
János Décsei
Hungary
Budapest
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Linked the printer friendly version in the first post, sorry for the delay. Have a nice game everyone!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   |