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Subject: Crusader Kings - the boardgame? rss

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Keith Grogan
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Looking for recommendations for such a game - medieval setting, war, diplomacy...
Maybe something like Here I Stand but rewound a few centuries, and perhaps a little less complexity? Nothing I've seen seems to really fit the bill - am I missing anything, or is there something on the horizon I can look forward to?
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Adam Pfaff
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Empires of the Middle Ages seems like what you are looking for.
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Justin F
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I backed Fief 1429 because it sounded like it had some of the same elements.
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Enrico Viglino
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Eugene
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aapkw9 wrote:
Empires of the Middle Ages seems like what you are looking for.


If you want one which WORKS, I guess. But EotMA is closer to
the old SSI title Medieval Lords. It is far more abstract than
Crusader Kings. There IS a game which tried to do what CK did -
Popes & Princes; it is not a completed design though, even
if it sold commercially. Another weak option would be the old
Blood Royale, but that is much lighter than CK, although it
does get into dynastic concerns (at least).

There was a Blood Royal inspired variant for Europa Universalis
which could probably be retrofitted to EotMA fairly well - adding
deeper dynastic connections (remember, this is intended to EXPAND
EU, which already has some) - that may be the best option out there
in terms of playable as well as having some of the detail of CK.

And yes, this is something I really was interested in. I worked on
designing a game of that nature for Italian families. The problem is the
depth of detail required to keep track of all the interpersonal relationships
(which I saw as an important factor). All of these (including my attempts)
predated CK, and really CK pretty much makes any such attempt obsolete.
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vins baudet
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Check MIL (1049) with the new rules, In the frontier of euros-thematic games, maybe a little abstract because it don´t refer to a particular place, but very good sensations....and the art is awesome

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Keith Grogan
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Yes I'm a fan of Crusader Kings, but strangely (or perhaps not so strangely), I can't play it very much simply because it's a PC game. I'm more a fan of the *idea* of it, but I need a cardboard version ... ;-) I need a board set up on my dining room table to ponder over. As I've gotten older I just can't stare at a computer screen for long anymore. (Despite all that, I just bought EU4 today...)

So medieval grand strategy - it does seem like EotMA is my best bet, and I'm going through your video Enrico, thanks for that. Seems like the consensus is the SPI version is superior to the DG - or is it really just a matter of taste?
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Enrico Viglino
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keithgrogan wrote:

Yes I'm a fan of Crusader Kings, but strangely (or perhaps not so strangely), I can't play it very much simply because it's a PC game.


I hear you there.

My understanding with the DG version is that they screwed up the map
a bit, and made some component choices which people weren't thrilled
with. It's probably cheaper to find the DG version though.


Found the EU variant for you: http://gamma.nic.fi/~virranko/BloodLine.html
That should give you a pretty good idea of what Blood Royal is like
(haven't gotten to vidding that one yet). The sad thing is, this is really
the core of BR - and with only five families, it just doesn't work well
enough to base a game upon it, IMO.
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Kyle Seely
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calandale wrote:
I hear you there.

My understanding with the DG version is that they screwed up the map
a bit, and made some component choices which people weren't thrilled
with. It's probably cheaper to find the DG version though.




I'm not so sure the DG version is any cheaper than the SPI version these days. I found a very good copy of the SPI version for $65 (and that only after stupidly letting myself get dragged into a bidding war over it), and others I've seen sell recently in the $40-$50 range. The DG versions I've seen on eBay are frequently in the "buy it now" range of $60-$80.
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Rex Stites
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Sluggonics wrote:
calandale wrote:
I hear you there.

My understanding with the DG version is that they screwed up the map
a bit, and made some component choices which people weren't thrilled
with. It's probably cheaper to find the DG version though.




I'm not so sure the DG version is any cheaper than the SPI version these days. I found a very good copy of the SPI version for $65 (and that only after stupidly letting myself get dragged into a bidding war over it), and others I've seen sell recently in the $40-$50 range. The DG versions I've seen on eBay are frequently in the "buy it now" range of $60-$80.


I recently gave $30 + shipping for a copy of the SPI version on eBay. It also came with a copy of Armada. Clearly the disdain for that game drove the price down.whistle
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Kyle Seely
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rstites25 wrote:
Sluggonics wrote:
calandale wrote:
I hear you there.

My understanding with the DG version is that they screwed up the map
a bit, and made some component choices which people weren't thrilled
with. It's probably cheaper to find the DG version though.




I'm not so sure the DG version is any cheaper than the SPI version these days. I found a very good copy of the SPI version for $65 (and that only after stupidly letting myself get dragged into a bidding war over it), and others I've seen sell recently in the $40-$50 range. The DG versions I've seen on eBay are frequently in the "buy it now" range of $60-$80.


I recently gave $30 + shipping for a copy of the SPI version on eBay. It also came with a copy of Armada. Clearly the disdain for that game drove the price down.whistle


I was watching that one! I suspected it would have gone for higher, but it's like the "bundle" idea of it made people suspicious or something - or maybe the one picture of all the parts jumbled into the box wasn't reassuring. There was also another copy of the SPI version that just went for $34.

I'm sure like most wargamers, I watch auctions of games I've already purchased so that I can torture myself for how low they sell for, compared to how high I paid for them.
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Joel K
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keithgrogan wrote:
Seems like the consensus is the SPI version is superior to the DG - or is it really just a matter of taste?

I own neither, but researched this quite a bit myself last year. It seems DG added quite a few components--more cards, more counters to go with several optional game subsystems they added, etc. They also changed the map from what had been more of a schematic diagram overlaid on a map of Europe to an actual area map--though they had to do some cartographic gymnastics to preserve the connectivity of the original map, and created a couple small map errata in the process.

Everyone has to make their own call on which map style they prefer. I like the SPI style better and think DG made a real dog's dinner out of the area map, but the SPI one has its quirks too--it's got no period feel to it at all (not surprising given the era in which it was published) and the bizarre Star Trek font. I'm making my own personal version in Inkscape with more of a medieval look to it.
 
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Rex Stites
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Sluggonics wrote:
rstites25 wrote:
Sluggonics wrote:
calandale wrote:
I hear you there.

My understanding with the DG version is that they screwed up the map
a bit, and made some component choices which people weren't thrilled
with. It's probably cheaper to find the DG version though.




I'm not so sure the DG version is any cheaper than the SPI version these days. I found a very good copy of the SPI version for $65 (and that only after stupidly letting myself get dragged into a bidding war over it), and others I've seen sell recently in the $40-$50 range. The DG versions I've seen on eBay are frequently in the "buy it now" range of $60-$80.


I recently gave $30 + shipping for a copy of the SPI version on eBay. It also came with a copy of Armada. Clearly the disdain for that game drove the price down.whistle


I was watching that one! I suspected it would have gone for higher, but it's like the "bundle" idea of it made people suspicious or something - or maybe the one picture of all the parts jumbled into the box wasn't reassuring. There was also another copy of the SPI version that just went for $34.

I'm sure like most wargamers, I watch auctions of games I've already purchased so that I can torture myself for how low they sell for, compared to how high I paid for them.


I think games with the counters all in one bag--especially if there are a lot of counters--tend to scare a lot of people away. I know I got a relatively good deal on The Civil War and all the counters were in a big zip-loc bag. It was kind of a pain in the ass to sort all the counters and try to make sure they were all there. Turned out that all counters seemed to have been accounted for--of course because the units are just strength points with no unit designation missing one of them wouldn't prevent playing the game.

When I look to buy games on eBay, I lump them into generally 3 categories: (1)Known missing parts; (2) Punched, but not confirmed complete; and (3) Unpunched/otherwise confirmed complete. I won't touch (1), tend not to buy (3)--because the price usually ends up being "market value", i.e. no "deals", but (2), that's where you can find some good deals. I buy to play the games--at least theoretically, in practice my unplayed stack keeps growing. If a game is missing a counter or two, as long as you can figure out what you're missing you can make it work. And most of the time you end up getting a 100% complete game anyway.

I haven't done anything with Empires yet, though. Hopefully it will all be there when I get to it. Perhaps this weekend...

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Geoff C
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A Game of Thrones (First Edition)
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ICONOCLAST

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Weak recommendation: Warriors & Traders
 
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