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Subject: Why is the Kickstarter NOT taking off? rss

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Nat Levan
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There are always a lot of factors in play, but here's what stands out most to me.

It's a project reboot, which can carry the stigma of "why should I back it now if it didn't succeed last time." And it's first time designer/publisher which always carries even more risks.

For me, the potential Zombie and Cthulu cards were more of a turn-off. I understand the whole game is supposed to be a bit tongue-in-cheek but to me, it comes off more like "We are willing to throw anything into this game to make it sell."

February has also been a big month for games, and March looks big, too. So maybe it has to be especially exciting to encourage people to stretch already thin budgets

Personally I was originally attracted to the theme, and making it co-op is an interesting angle, and I would like to support it because it is located in my town. But I like games that are more mechanics driven and less theme driven.

That's my two cents, and I wish them all the best!
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Waggly Bean
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I'm wondering why it isn't picking up too - to me it looks brilliant! I actually wasn't going to back anything else for a while, but randomly stumbled on this project and knew I had to give it my support.

I suspect that the lack of miniatures is hurting it, as sad as that is. I must admit minis always appeal to me, so I'm as bad as the next guy I suppose, but with Westerly I can see beyond that and the game still looks simply awesome.

I do still think it will fund, but I get the feeling it will only just fund. Which is a shame as some of those stretch goals look pretty nice!
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Mickey Jarvi
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Sivilized wrote:

For me, the potential Zombie and Cthulu cards were more of a turn-off. I understand the whole game is supposed to be a bit tongue-in-cheek but to me, it comes off more like "We are willing to throw anything into this game to make it sell."


I agree with this 100%. It was a turn off for me as well. I will just not play with those cards if the game funds. I want to play a western game and not cthulhu (that is why I did not back Shadows of Brimstone). I too wish them the best
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Mickey Jarvi
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wagglybean wrote:
I do still think it will fund, but I get the feeling it will only just fund. Which is a shame as some of those stretch goals look pretty nice!


Yes the very large stretch goals were incredibly ambitious.
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Montgomery Van
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pinustrobus wrote:
I agree with this 100%. It was a turn off for me as well. I will just not play with those cards if the game funds. I want to play a western game and not cthulhu (that is why I did not back Shadows of Brimstone). I too wish them the best


First off, it was your effort in starting this thread that got me interested enough to check the game out. I ended up backing it. Thank you.

I do have to say, though -- I completely agree with the expansions skepticism. I like the idea of the Highs & Lows exp, but the other three leave me cold; Lovecraft is best left to short stories (imho), 'Zombies on the Oregon Trail' is a tad too silly, and Steampunk simply annoys me.

Having said that, whatever works for the campaign works for all of us. If they felt the need to throw in the various flavors of the month to help themselves get this over the hump, more power to them.
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Jonathan Franklin
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For me, it was a combination of first impressions:

1. Caarrrrdigaaaan - Lots of flavor text, goofy art, and fairly simple looking effects made me wonder how deep the game was, esp. for one that is listed as 90 minutes.

2. The Calm, Swift, Rapids board suggested a dexterity element

3. The Horse Pucker art, while funny, suggests a fluffy game.

This led me to think, before reading a word, that it would be like a dungeon crawl for kids set in the West. For me, it would be interesting to know the following, which I scanned for in the text:

1. Are the decision points substantive, or are they more determined by which encounter card you happen to flip?

2. It has the Oregon Trail vibe, but that feels dated. Does it use more modern co-op aspects - hand management, resource management, time track, etc.?

3. Does the art reflect the weight of the game, in which case it is not for me, or is it a deeper game with fluffy art?

I would not care about these if it were 30 min., but at 90 min. and $50, it needs to offer more meat than it appears to have. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
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Mickey Jarvi
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Mont Van wrote:
First off, it was your effort in starting this thread that got me interested enough to check the game out. I ended up backing it. Thank you.

AWESOME! I hope more people are attracted to the game, it looks fantastic!
 
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Mickey Jarvi
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grandslam wrote:
For me, it was a combination of first impressions:

1. Caarrrrdigaaaan - Lots of flavor text, goofy art, and fairly simple looking effects made me wonder how deep the game was, esp. for one that is listed as 90 minutes.

2. The Calm, Swift, Rapids board suggested a dexterity element

3. The Horse Pucker art, while funny, suggests a fluffy game.

This led me to think, before reading a word, that it would be like a dungeon crawl for kids set in the West. For me, it would be interesting to know the following, which I scanned for in the text:

1. Are the decision points substantive, or are they more determined by which encounter card you happen to flip?

2. It has the Oregon Trail vibe, but that feels dated. Does it use more modern co-op aspects - hand management, resource management, time track, etc.?

3. Does the art reflect the weight of the game, in which case it is not for me, or is it a deeper game with fluffy art?

I would not care about these if it were 30 min., but at 90 min. and $50, it needs to offer more meat than it appears to have. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.


I would generally leave these questions to the designers, as they have been answering questions on the forums. However, the rulebook can be found here to perhaps answer your questions.

Or you can direclty ask
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I do know the dexterity portion was taken out of the game, but those that want to still try it can purchase an add-on. The general feeling that I get from this game and undead viking's review is that it is very tough and fairly deep. Although, the art and cards suggest light and fluffy, I'm taking it that the game is out to make sure you do not survive the trip to the west.
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Ray Smith
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pinustrobus wrote:
Sivilized wrote:

For me, the potential Zombie and Cthulu cards were more of a turn-off. I understand the whole game is supposed to be a bit tongue-in-cheek but to me, it comes off more like "We are willing to throw anything into this game to make it sell."


I agree with this 100%. It was a turn off for me as well. I will just not play with those cards if the game funds. I want to play a western game and not cthulhu (that is why I did not back Shadows of Brimstone). I too wish them the best


I also concur. But I wholeheartedly backed it, and just didn't bother pledging at the Zombie/Cthulu level. However I did add enough to get the "normal" themed High-Lo expansion separately.
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Mickey Jarvi
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rdsmith wrote:
pinustrobus wrote:
Sivilized wrote:

For me, the potential Zombie and Cthulu cards were more of a turn-off. I understand the whole game is supposed to be a bit tongue-in-cheek but to me, it comes off more like "We are willing to throw anything into this game to make it sell."


I agree with this 100%. It was a turn off for me as well. I will just not play with those cards if the game funds. I want to play a western game and not cthulhu (that is why I did not back Shadows of Brimstone). I too wish them the best


I also concur. But I wholeheartedly backed it, and just didn't bother pledging at the Zombie/Cthulu level. However I did add enough to get the "normal" themed High-Lo expansion separately.


The high/low expansion looks like it will bring even more fun and difficulty to the table. Thanks for pointing that out.
 
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Hai Kulture
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Whether the expansions leave you cold or not really isn't an issue in regards to the pledging.

Westerly pledging is split so people can either stick with the straight O-Trail theme and expand that with the now separated High and Lows or go all out on the nonsense with 'Trails and Tropes' at the higher pledge. No one is forced to laugh at a joke if they don't want to.

Also the Cthulhu, Zombies, and Steampunk isn't so much throwing the kitchen sink into the game to get it to sell - but spoofing those flavors-of-the-month that are out there.

The game is a parody after all.

The darkly humorous art and style is not so much fluff - as to lighten the mood that this is a co-op that is going to hammer you for the fun of it and drag you across the pixelated prairie of yesteryear.

And Minis? Meeples? Does every game really need them?
The cost of six funny shaped little doo-dads to the developers truly outweighs the necessity in this game in my opinion
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Trevor Lafferty
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Well said madam!
Couldn't have said it better myself, and I helped create the dern thing.

The game has some really horrific things that can happen to you, so we kept the art on the lighter side to balance it out. We wanted to create a world of catastrophic but hilarious perils to keep players laughing even as their character's limbs are lost to savage wolves, roving bandits and even a pack of very unhappy otters.

The expansions are just what you said, tropes nested in another trope to lay a nice icing of ludicrous on the cake of absurdity. We picked the top three overdone gaming themes and gave them a gentle twist to squeeze them into an old west world. So if your into the joys of this kind of parody and don't mind running into a Shoggoth hobo or a clockwork gunslinger, you'll definitely enjoy these expansions. If not, the hi-low deck gives you more encounters that stick with the western theme, just more extreme than the standard deck.

As for the minis, we decided against them for the time being, favoring content and style over a few trinkets that are fairly expensive to produce.

We aimed to make a game that was fun and witty while still being challenging and, most importantly, an entertaining group experience. I'm glad everyone on here has taken an interest in Westerly, and we'd be happy to answer any questions.
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Patrick C.
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I was a $75 backer and then I cancelled. I don't normally cancel my pledges. Out of some 50 or so campaigns (KS and others) I think this was only the second time.

Here's why:

1. A review besides one by Undead Viking. I want to be clear, Viking sounds like a nice guy, a cool dude, someone I would gladly play a game with if given the chance. But I don't enjoy his video reviews because they're way too long and I find that he tends to be a bit too generous. I've definitely been a bit meh about some games he's raved about. I posted on KS that I would appreciate a more concise review that explained the gameplay better.

2. No response to my post. Nothing. It wasn't an unreasonable request. I've seen a lot of KS campaigns where backers come off as entitled brats. Given how desperate this campaign is I think they should be focused on trying to sell the game and not ignore practical advice.

3. I've backed so many mediocre games or games that just don't appeal to me, good or not. I'm tired of backing games that look good and might be good, but aren't good for me. I need MORE info.

4. The Tokaido KS campaign along and it's expensive. I own Tokaido. I like it. I'm going with what I know instead of risking on an unknown. (Keeps going back to that pesky review request - give me more info!)

5. Too many posts by Hai. Sorry if this sounds like an attack, but I think honesty is needed here. There's a lesson here for people who create KS campaigns to control how their product is presented. At one point I thought she was part of the campaign. Some of her comments were a bit snide. I realize she's an enthusiastic supporter. But less is more. When you have one person dominating your discussion forum on KS and you're not answering requests from your backers it looks bad. It gives new supporters the impression that the person doing all the posting is part of your campaign.

6. Price. I have never backed a game in which I've missed the EB price and the difference between EB and non-EB was more than $5. To get the basic game you have to pay $10 more than the EB's. This is a game that needs as many supporters as possible. I've said this before and I'll say it again about KS - don't do things that piss off your supporters. EB pricing, if it's too extreme, turns away many backers. Yes, it pulls in some, but it brings in negatives. Do things that are only positive.

The West is possibly my favorite theme. I own Homesteaders, Carson City, Wyatt Earp, Dice Town etc. and I'm keeping them all in part because of the theme. If any of these games were space or sci-fi I'd get rid of them. This is a game I could have backed. And I did at one point. Until I decided it just wasn't worth it.
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Hai Kulture
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travvller wrote:


5. Too many posts by Hai. Sorry if this sounds like an attack, but I think honesty is needed here. There's a lesson here for people who create KS campaigns to control how their product is presented. At one point I thought she was part of the campaign. Some of her comments were a bit snide. I realize she's an enthusiastic supporter. But less is more. When you have one person dominating your discussion forum on KS and you're not answering requests from your backers it looks bad. It gives new supporters the impression that the person doing all the posting is part of your campaign.


Awwww. That's ok Patrick

But with about 250 or so link shares Tweeted, an e-mail to W. Eric Martin to get the campaign mentioned on BGG News Kickstarter Round-up, a cajoling to list Westerly on Boardgaming.com's This Week on Kickstarter, a pinky promise from Paul Owens to get a mention on Dice Tower News, and contacting various podcasts I'm friendly with to see if they would get in touch with Westerly or give a shout out - I think I can sleep well tonight.

I'm sorry you didn't get the information you wanted - but it wasn't from a lack of this enthusiastic backer you found annoying trying to get people to ask some questions and put it out on the web.

I also note'd the Westerly Boys that it might be a good idea to be less of a ghost presence on their campaign so people didn't say 'Who is that crazy b*tch talking to herself' - so we're actually on the same page there.

Hope that didn't sound snide






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Mickey Jarvi
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travvller wrote:
I was a $75 backer and then I cancelled. I don't normally cancel my pledges. Out of some 50 or so campaigns (KS and others) I think this was only the second time.

Here's why:

1. A review besides one by Undead Viking. I want to be clear, Viking sounds like a nice guy, a cool dude, someone I would gladly play a game with if given the chance. But I don't enjoy his video reviews because they're way too long and I find that he tends to be a bit too generous. I've definitely been a bit meh about some games he's raved about. I posted on KS that I would appreciate a more concise review that explained the gameplay better.

2. No response to my post. Nothing. It wasn't an unreasonable request. I've seen a lot of KS campaigns where backers come off as entitled brats. Given how desperate this campaign is I think they should be focused on trying to sell the game and not ignore practical advice.

3. I've backed so many mediocre games or games that just don't appeal to me, good or not. I'm tired of backing games that look good and might be good, but aren't good for me. I need MORE info.

4. The Tokaido KS campaign along and it's expensive. I own Tokaido. I like it. I'm going with what I know instead of risking on an unknown. (Keeps going back to that pesky review request - give me more info!)

5. Too many posts by Hai. Sorry if this sounds like an attack, but I think honesty is needed here. There's a lesson here for people who create KS campaigns to control how their product is presented. At one point I thought she was part of the campaign. Some of her comments were a bit snide. I realize she's an enthusiastic supporter. But less is more. When you have one person dominating your discussion forum on KS and you're not answering requests from your backers it looks bad. It gives new supporters the impression that the person doing all the posting is part of your campaign.

6. Price. I have never backed a game in which I've missed the EB price and the difference between EB and non-EB was more than $5. To get the basic game you have to pay $10 more than the EB's. This is a game that needs as many supporters as possible. I've said this before and I'll say it again about KS - don't do things that piss off your supporters. EB pricing, if it's too extreme, turns away many backers. Yes, it pulls in some, but it brings in negatives. Do things that are only positive.

The West is possibly my favorite theme. I own Homesteaders, Carson City, Wyatt Earp, Dice Town etc. and I'm keeping them all in part because of the theme. If any of these games were space or sci-fi I'd get rid of them. This is a game I could have backed. And I did at one point. Until I decided it just wasn't worth it.


Thank you for taking the time to respond as this was exactly what I was looking for and I hope the designers are looking too. I too would like more response on the comment thread, but I would note that I've contacted them a few times with personal messages and they respond fairly quickly. It is my opinion that there is just no excitement in the comment threads or updates. Not that there's much to be excited about. I really hope this game is made.
 
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Yeah I've messaged them too and they were really quick to reply and managed to get my request actioned pretty quickly. They are definitely on the ball there, but I agree there could be more communication through the comments section to keep it lively.

Still hoping that things will pick up a bit soon!

And more videos definitely would be appreciated too!
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I am backing the game but I think the main problem is the 40K amount just to fund. There are not a lot of boardgame projects period that ever even come close to that. Stretch goals do drive excitement and the project was never to reach that state of excitement by hitting any. I sorely hope it funds, but I'll be surprised at this point if it does.
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fred Tortonesi
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i think what they need is for the creators to put up a live fee of a game session or a session of at least a couple of turns so people ses what they are getting. i am really excited and was interested once i saw undeadvikings video of the game.
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I have to admit I am completely baffled by this thread.

I see one common Kickstarter concern here. Game play videos and information are important. The more people are informed the easier it is to make a backer decision, often times for the positive, because something might click. Sometimes pretty pictures just aren't enough. This campaign page is informative and gives you a sense of the game, but more never hurts. I completely agree.

Westerly isn't my bag. I'm ok with that. I'm sure Westerly is ok with that. Not my bag is someone else's. We agree to disagree. Isn't that what Kickstarter is all about? Pledging for things you like or want to support and giving silent disapproval for things you don't by NOT pledging?

Sorry guys! I'm not interested.

No hard feelings?

But asking for SPECIFIC reasons why non-backers aren't interested, that's going to lead to negative comments. THEY DON'T WANT TO BACK YOU!!!!Since BGG is a major gaming resource: do you really want a forum post about what NOT to like about a game or a campaign? You ARE trying to drum up backers, right? This supportive thread is so backhandedly supportive - it isn't. I can tell you where someone on the 'Westerly Fence' is going to land.

And the person who started this 'supportive' post says this:
pinustrobus wrote:
Not that there's much to be excited about. I really hope this game is made.


'I really hope this game no one is excited about gets made'????

Good luck to you.

And checking your comments: someone decides to crucify one of the few people who actually seemed interested in the game? I don't think the problem was one backer dominating the comments. I think it was 300 some people (including the designers) not saying a damn thing.

I almost pledged just because I felt sorry for her.

Why is this Kickstarter NOT taking off?
I think some of the reasons are right here.

To people who addressed a valid concern, I salute you.
To others: You might want to pledge the 'Shot Yourselves in the Foot' expansion.

(I do hope that set off The Snidemeter's alarm as it was outright sarcasm)

You aren't going to 'take off' if you ice your own wings!

I'll say this. Westerly isn't my bag, but if you stumble upon this thread: go back and look at the campaign.

It looks good.
It looks fun.

I just don't want it.

I have MY reasons.

As for YOU: Read about the game, delve into it, and make your own decision.

If people do that, you might increase your pledges.







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For me it was simply my first impression from the artwork and graphic design. I didn't think it was very professional looking, which made me assume the game itself is also half baked.

There are so many games out there, that if my first impression isn't favorable, I move to the next thing. In most cases, graphics and presentation are that first impression.
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saucyjack wrote:

And the person who started this 'supportive' post says this:
pinustrobus wrote:
Not that there's much to be excited about. I really hope this game is made.


'I really hope this game no one is excited about gets made'????


That comment seems to be more related to the campaign not being exciting, not so much the feeling for the game.
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rccoll wrote:
saucyjack wrote:

And the person who started this 'supportive' post says this:
pinustrobus wrote:
Not that there's much to be excited about. I really hope this game is made.


'I really hope this game no one is excited about gets made'????


That comment seems to be more related to the campaign not being exciting, not so much the feeling for the game.


Exactly
 
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saucyjack wrote:
I have to admit I am completely baffled by this thread.

I see one common Kickstarter concern here. Game play videos and information are important. The more people are informed the easier it is to make a backer decision, often times for the positive, because something might click. Sometimes pretty pictures just aren't enough. This campaign page is informative and gives you a sense of the game, but more never hurts. I completely agree.

Westerly isn't my bag. I'm ok with that. I'm sure Westerly is ok with that. Not my bag is someone else's. We agree to disagree. Isn't that what Kickstarter is all about? Pledging for things you like or want to support and giving silent disapproval for things you don't by NOT pledging?

Sorry guys! I'm not interested.

No hard feelings?

But asking for SPECIFIC reasons why non-backers aren't interested, that's going to lead to negative comments. THEY DON'T WANT TO BACK YOU!!!!Since BGG is a major gaming resource: do you really want a forum post about what NOT to like about a game or a campaign? You ARE trying to drum up backers, right? This supportive thread is so backhandedly supportive - it isn't. I can tell you where someone on the 'Westerly Fence' is going to land.

And the person who started this 'supportive' post says this:
pinustrobus wrote:
Not that there's much to be excited about. I really hope this game is made.


'I really hope this game no one is excited about gets made'????

Good luck to you.

And checking your comments: someone decides to crucify one of the few people who actually seemed interested in the game? I don't think the problem was one backer dominating the comments. I think it was 300 some people (including the designers) not saying a damn thing.

I almost pledged just because I felt sorry for her.

Why is this Kickstarter NOT taking off?
I think some of the reasons are right here.

To people who addressed a valid concern, I salute you.
To others: You might want to pledge the 'Shot Yourselves in the Foot' expansion.

(I do hope that set off The Snidemeter's alarm as it was outright sarcasm)

You aren't going to 'take off' if you ice your own wings!

I'll say this. Westerly isn't my bag, but if you stumble upon this thread: go back and look at the campaign.

It looks good.
It looks fun.

I just don't want it.

I have MY reasons.

As for YOU: Read about the game, delve into it, and make your own decision.

If people do that, you might increase your pledges.









You seem to have a lot of anger issues that need to be sorted out. Your comment to this thread was not helpful, or constructive, at all. If the game isn't your bag, then that is all you had to say and move on.
 
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ManuMan wrote:
For me it was simply my first impression from the artwork and graphic design. I didn't think it was very professional looking, which made me assume the game itself is also half baked.

There are so many games out there, that if my first impression isn't favorable, I move to the next thing. In most cases, graphics and presentation are that first impression.


I agree with this for a lot of game when I "shop" for a new game. There are many that will probably crucify us for saying this though. If a game does not look intriguing or interesting to me I probably will pass on it. Which is a shame because underneath there is probably are very great game to behold.
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Speaking on behalf of the game as one of the designers. Westerly is designed to be a fun story telling adventure that has a sarcastic tounge in cheek approach to a very brutal theme. It has a unique feel and quality that looks and feels light hearted because this balances the mayhem and carnage that happens along the way. The first design prototype was too in depth for many playtesters saying that too much complexity gets in the way of the fun and story as it unfolds. What resulted from those intense playtests is what we feel is a great balance between the two.

If people find that the art is not there thing or they don't like certain expansions that's cool. Nobody ever makes everyone happy. That's what BGG and Kickstarter are about, giving people the option to learn about and support something that would never have existed otherwise. The main point is that the things that make a game like Westerly fun and different are the same things that would keep it out of target and walmart and we are ok with that infact we love that. We want to be able to reach everyone who says a yup now thats the kind of thing Im looking for, and then bust out there little secret box of awesome that most people havent heard about and show their friends that theres a whole bunch of games like this out there if you know where to look and are connected to the right communities.

As for gameplay videos the review and gameplay are all one video. I think Undead viking did a great job showing how it works which is why its long, it's long but its good and full of details.
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