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Subject: So I am thinking of trying out a Blackguard deck rss

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Jeremy Hager
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ninjaA few questions for those better than me:

Would it be worth splashing xanadu to really make the corp shell out?
If I were to go with xanadu, should I run 2 or 3 forged activation orders?

I'm trying to figure out how many of the following to run with:

Snitch, infiltration, and lemuria code crackers. I'm thinking definitely 3 infiltration, 3 snitches, but not sure on lemuria. I'm trying to couple them up with two (?) compromised employees to hopefully make up for not having the money from desperado.

I really want to run with blackguard, so any assistance in that pursuit would be appreciated.
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Clyde W
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The first thing you need to know about the console is that it is pronounced "blaggard." Similar to how Kati is pronounced "Cat-ee."
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Ken Dilloo
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Everything is relative to perception, and your perception is limited.
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If you are running Crim, why no Satellite Uplink? I would probably run 3x of those, 2-3x of Snitch, and 2-3x of Infiltration. Bag lemuria, unless you are really pounding HQ, then maybe as a one-of.

Xanadu would be an interesting splash, but how about rook, if you are running Snitch?

The biggest issue with it might be the 11 cost, but it is hard to gauge the benefit. Maybe throwing in some modded, or cheating it out somehow, would be good.

FOA would be great, once you break them, but parasites would be great, for when they do rez.

Edit: I might also wait for the Silhouette ID, or proxy it, if your playmates allow.
 
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Glenn Glenn
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I would think that you should play cards that aren't bad on their own. Infiltration is a solid card, I will play 3. Sattelite uplink is not, scrapped. Snitch is good, but you only need 1, 2 should be enough, maybe 3. Instead of parasite, emergency shutdown is in faction, and so is forged activation orders. I'd save my influence for breakers and indexing or something.
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Rob Jennings
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I've tested it a bit, and in my experience, if you have snitch you don't really need any other expose. The turn you play blackguard you just run all the servers and force the corp to rez an ice on each one.

Forged activation orders is a little redundant, because blackguard already does what it does. What you really want is lots of ways to derez, like emergency shutdown and crescentus. That was if you hit the jackpot and they have something big (especially an archer), you can make them rez it repeatedly until they install over it.
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Jeremy Hager
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clydeiii wrote:
The first thing you need to know about the console is that it is pronounced "blaggard." Similar to how Kati is pronounced "Cat-ee."


ROIGHT!

bigloo33 wrote:
If you are running Crim, why no Satellite Uplink? I would probably run 3x of those, 2-3x of Snitch, and 2-3x of Infiltration. Bag lemuria, unless you are really pounding HQ, then maybe as a one-of.

Xanadu would be an interesting splash, but how about rook, if you are running Snitch?

The biggest issue with it might be the 11 cost, but it is hard to gauge the benefit. Maybe throwing in some modded, or cheating it out somehow, would be good.

FOA would be great, once you break them, but parasites would be great, for when they do rez.

Edit: I might also wait for the Silhouette ID, or proxy it, if your playmates allow.


I'd already included 3 SUs. Didn't think that was really questionable, haha, but Boogie has me wondering now. . .

I re-did the deck and think I will need to save my influence for breakers, r&d interface, modded, and Levy AR (debating replacing that).


Boogie knights wrote:
I would think that you should play cards that aren't bad on their own. Infiltration is a solid card, I will play 3. Sattelite uplink is not, scrapped. Snitch is good, but you only need 1, 2 should be enough, maybe 3. Instead of parasite, emergency shutdown is in faction, and so is forged activation orders. I'd save my influence for breakers and indexing or something.


Hmmmm. You might be right about SU, but I think the tradeoff is that it lets you expose TWO cards. My thoughts were that it would be useful not just for ice, but for upgrades and assets, notably against Jinteki.

sechen_rob wrote:
I've tested it a bit, and in my experience, if you have snitch you don't really need any other expose. The turn you play blackguard you just run all the servers and force the corp to rez an ice on each one.

Forged activation orders is a little redundant, because blackguard already does what it does. What you really want is lots of ways to derez, like emergency shutdown and crescentus. That was if you hit the jackpot and they have something big (especially an archer), you can make them rez it repeatedly until they install over it.


I think you're right on FOA, but I can't be sure about taking out satelite uplink for the reasons stated above. Plus, I don't know if I have enough room in the deck for crescentus and emergency shutdown. I'll see what I can do.
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Ken Dilloo
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Rob, glad someone has already been testing this. Wondering where the tipping point of too much expose is. Rob seems to have a handle.

Shudown and Cesensus would be the nuts, here. Didn't even think about hitting an archer over and over. Good stuff.

Rob, how do you deal with the 11 creds? Seems like a lot, but you are probably getting lots of runs for free.
 
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Glenn Glenn
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Forged is redundant if you use it aggressively, but if you see a piece of ice that they can't rez and you would like to keep it that way, you have targeted destruction. Plus, you can still use it like blackguard before you get blackguard.

And uplink, I think, isn't as good as you want it to be, especially before blackguard comes down. After you pay 11 and are all set up, uplink is pissing in a pond. You will still have snitch (hopefully), extra infiltration, and maybe a codecracker (1 of luck sack? Only needed at the tail end of the rig). If you are playing silhouette, it becomes even less necessary.

Infiltration is a decent card on its own, snitch allows you to facecheck with just a Corroder down and not get screwed. Uplink costs money and sits in you hand until you need it, but you don't really need it. At least infiltration covers its own card slot with the 2 buck ability.
 
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Jeremy Hager
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wait a minute, the black runner is named Silhouette and her console is the blackguard?!?!

who got paid to come up with that?
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TK Number 3
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How does Sattelite Uplink work for the dual expose. I think it said at some point they both expose at once, so I guess if 2 3-cost ICE were exposed when the corp had 5 credits, the required cost would be 6 credits so they would not be forced to rez. Does this sound right?
 
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Andrew Keddie
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TKNumber3 wrote:
How does Sattelite Uplink work for the dual expose. I think it said at some point they both expose at once, so I guess if 2 3-cost ICE were exposed when the corp had 5 credits, the required cost would be 6 credits so they would not be forced to rez. Does this sound right?


Currently under discussion, awaiting official answer.
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Heartthrob
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I personally am running a Blackguard deck that I love. But it's a Reina deck with Blackguard and Snitch splashed in. Mid-game, when there are lots of icy servers and you have Xanadu/Rook it becomes a very strong combo that requires some tricky play. The trick is to be using Snitch early, make sure you know as much as you can about the ice that is out there before you play Blackguard, that way you'll know which ice you can make them rez to make them broke at the right moments.

I am really really liking this deck right now. It requires some real strategy to know which ice to force-rez to either a) make it so they pay a premium price for ice they didn't really want to rez, b)make them go broke when they need the money to rez on another server that you're going to attack next, and c)make them pay for having lots of ice all over the place.

Pretty soon, the strategy deters them from getting too much econ...which is a win-win for the runner.

If they are playing an ice-light deck, then Reina just plays like Reina with no need for Blackguard. The reason I didn't like the card in-faction right now is for that reason...you have to go full Blackguard/Expose strategy or not at all because you lose the ability to run the other important consoles that Criminals need to be aggro. Another reason I like Blackguard + Reina combo is that Reina can really punish the runner for rezzing by making it expensive. If the only punishment the runner gets from Blackguard is that they have to rez the ice they were going to rez on your run anyway at the same cost, then you haven't gained anything extra from it.
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Wabi Sabi Will

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I'm not sure why Satellite Uplink is getting so much hate, I've found it indispensable. It's great when I think I may want to run a remote and I don't know what's installed there. I expose the installed card (if it's an upgrade or asset, they have to rez it) and then I expose a piece of ICE on another server, especially if I just exposed an Agenda and the remote I plan to run hasn't had any ICE rezzed on it yet, I just walk right in.
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Tobias Maier
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The problem with blackguard is that corps can play around it. Blackguard only pays for itself, if you can make the corp spend all his money. So you get into another server cheap.

If the corp puts out less ice you cannot get him broke and he can pay most of his stuff. An archer will probably never hit the table against blackguard. Sure it is a tough situation for a corp but it costs 11 credits (and suboptimal deck choices) it should be tough.
I will try blackguard too but right now I am a little underwhelmed.

EDIT:On the subject matter. I like 1x Satalite Uplink but you never want multiples. Snitch is an interesting question and depends on if you want it before blackguard.
 
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Stan Adecla
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Clique wrote:
I personally am running a Blackguard deck that I love. But it's a Reina deck with Blackguard and Snitch splashed in. Mid-game, when there are lots of icy servers and you have Xanadu/Rook it becomes a very strong combo that requires some tricky play. The trick is to be using Snitch early, make sure you know as much as you can about the ice that is out there before you play Blackguard, that way you'll know which ice you can make them rez to make them broke at the right moments.


You're a fucking genius! Thank you for exposing correct Snitch play to the masses. It took me a long while to realize this about Snitch. This doesn't just work with Blaggard, a Professor can use this as well so he knows just how to attack a server with the clicks and cash he has available. It really turns on cards like Test Run so you don't just have to get a Femme. You can get something that enables multiple attacks in a turn.

Snitching will also enable a Criminal to just wipe ice off the board with targeted Forged Activation Orders. Getting rid of bigger, more annoying ice will always help in the longer run since the corp cannot work to rez that card later. The server will remain weak. Crescentus will be a good friend as well.
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Heartthrob
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wakkowolf wrote:


You're a fucking genius! Thank you for exposing correct Snitch play to the masses. It took me a long while to realize this about Snitch. This doesn't just work with Blaggard, a Professor can use this as well so he knows just how to attack a server with the clicks and cash he has available. It really turns on cards like Test Run so you don't just have to get a Femme. You can get something that enables multiple attacks in a turn.

Snitching will also enable a Criminal to just wipe ice off the board with targeted Forged Activation Orders. Getting rid of bigger, more annoying ice will always help in the longer run since the corp cannot work to rez that card later. The server will remain weak. Crescentus will be a good friend as well.


Exactly son! That's what I'm about! Snitch is a dope card to play early and face check everything you see. They think you're just wasting runs but you know you're waiting to play a combo mid-game where you'll need to know all of the ice in play. Good thinking with Prof, I'll have to try a Shaper Blackguard style sometime...do you have a deck list for that? You can see my V 2.0 Reina here: http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/2769/blackguard-of-the-re...
 
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Wabi Sabi Will

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Toobiased wrote:


EDIT:On the subject matter. I like 1x Satalite Uplink but you never want multiples. Snitch is an interesting question and depends on if you want it before blackguard.


Never is a strong word.

 
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Higgs Brozo
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Toobiased wrote:
Blackguard only pays for itself, if you can make the corp spend all his money. So you get into another server cheap.


Note that it's also +2 MU, something that doesn't exactly come cheap unless you're Anarch.
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Tobias Maier
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photogasm wrote:
Toobiased wrote:


EDIT:On the subject matter. I like 1x Satalite Uplink but you never want multiples. Snitch is an interesting question and depends on if you want it before blackguard.


Never is a strong word.



What I meant to say is you never want two in your hand. There might be some corner cases but generally speaking the second one is practically dead.
 
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Steven Tu
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HiggsBrozo wrote:
Toobiased wrote:
Blackguard only pays for itself, if you can make the corp spend all his money. So you get into another server cheap.


Note that it's also +2 MU, something that doesn't exactly come cheap unless you're Anarch.


11 creds is certainly not cheap
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Jeremy Espinosa
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I've play tested Blackguard with Andy and there is no way it is better than just playing Andy straight up with Desperado. Snitch is definitely the way to go instead of putting too much emphasis on Satellite Uplink and Infiltration.

I do like the idea of it with Reina and that might be worth a look. I have a feeling it will be much more viable when Honor and Profit comes out but for now it is just a fun idea.
 
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Dwight Powell
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A Gabe Blackguard deck won our local Store Championship yesterday, losing only one game all day. I played him in Round Two and thought he was running a standard Gabe deck with Snitch to help him decide where to run. Then he threw down Blackguard, forced me to rez unimportant ice, which made me poor, then ran on other servers.

It's a brutal deck, especially against Corps that want to be rich and/or run big ice.
 
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Robbie M.
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PraetorianXVIII wrote:
wait a minute, the black runner is named Silhouette and her console is the blackguard?!?!

who got paid to come up with that?


Maybe this guy,

wrote:
Exactly son! That's what I'm about! Snitch is a dope card to play
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Steven Tu
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That's super interesting, cos it's not hard to play down only the ice you want to rez. But then you have to have foresight. Another strategy to play around and plan for, very cool
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Jeremy Hager
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Dwiggy444 wrote:
A Gabe Blackguard deck won our local Store Championship yesterday, losing only one game all day. I played him in Round Two and thought he was running a standard Gabe deck with Snitch to help him decide where to run. Then he threw down Blackguard, forced me to rez unimportant ice, which made me poor, then ran on other servers.

It's a brutal deck, especially against Corps that want to be rich and/or run big ice.



go on. . .
 
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