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Enemy Action: Ardennes» Forums » General

Subject: So where are we...? rss

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Greg Love
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I can understand your angst in waiting a long time for a game, but I would rather have a finely tuned, bug free, thoroughly play tested game, than something which is rushed out the door in haste. Good things take time to perfect, and I think the wait will be worth it!
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Russ Williams
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demonsss wrote:
3 years! something to be ashamed of I think...

Really? I don't think so at all. Rather, I've been quite impressed reading about the amount of serious care being taken in development and testing of the game to improve its quality, which will seemingly be far higher than most published wargames.

What's shameful about that? AFAIK they were under no contract or obligation to finish it in a certain amount of time (if I'm mistaken, please correct me!)

It seems like complaining that an author didn't finish writing a novel as quickly as you liked.
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Tuomo Syvänperä
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russ wrote:

It seems like complaining that an author didn't finish writing a novel as quickly as you liked.


Hmm.. Not quite, considering you usually don't pay the author in advance for the novel.
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Paul Borchers
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We all have different anxieties about how we spend our money. I generally don't preorder from companies that take my money up front (and I ignore Kickstarter altogether). I made an exception for this one based on reputation of the designer and the developer.

I've seen varying performances when it comes to how game companies handle preorders, and I try to find out all I can about the development of the game when I place my order so that I can anticipate its completion. Many games are indeed not fully developed when they go out the door, and frequently that's the result of the game company having to meet deadlines so they can keep their revenue flowing, gang-print game components, and so on. When it comes to a game of this complexity, with three independent games in the package, I'm not at all surprised it takes this long to develop (I helped playtest a game that was a part of a long-standing series that was a four-year project).
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Ted Spencer
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demonsss wrote:
Its been nearly 3 years , In my view a shocking amount of time, ... before I get the company supporter geeks on my case... there is a lot of game companies out there punting for my pound.. my blacklist of companies pre-order ethics is growing. Waiting I have no problems at all with, but just tell me the truth at the start... I will still always support if I like the product... 3 years! something to be ashamed of I think... (also something in the south Atlantic had similar communication issues)
Well said. This isn't "angst," which is individual, it's frustration, which is relational. Calling it angst is dismissive, saying the problem is inside the person, rather than admitting the problem is in the relationship between buyer and seller. Another example of why companies should have customer service reps field these questions.

There are a lot of great games and a lot of great gaming experiences left to be had. I have too many games, war and not war, that I thought was going to give me that Next Big Thrill (c). I've been right 1 out of 100 times.

Will this game be the one? Who cares? There are already too many war games I haven't played, solo and not, where I'm expecting the next big thrill. Let them take their time. At the price point of this game, having the first buyers finish the playtesting would be worse than waiting.
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Richard Pardoe
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demonsss wrote:
Its been nearly 3 years ,

If I may ask since what?

Can't be paying for the game as I was anxiously awaiting for the payment window to open and jumped right in with my payment as soon as it was open. My payment was in January of 2012 making it just 2 years in my book.

And the pre-order price I paid at that point in time is lower than the the pre-order price now, so personally, I find that adequate compensation for waiting a bit longer between pre-order and delivery.

Have you contacted the company to request a refund if you are unhappy with the delivery time and the information that has been communicated within the updates?
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David Siskin
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While I totally understand your frustration, try to remember that this is essentially three games in one box. Two solo games and one two-player game. Each needs to be play-tested and finely tuned, with rounds of rules editing for each. Those solo maps are not your standard fare either, and they really need to be perfect out the door.

So, patience, my friend, will be rewarded.

BTW, I played a 2p play-test copy last October and the game seemed pretty darned well on its way! Just sit tight!
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Russ Williams
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Tinimini wrote:
russ wrote:

It seems like complaining that an author didn't finish writing a novel as quickly as you liked.


Hmm.. Not quite, considering you usually don't pay the author in advance for the novel.


I only recently started following this game, so I simply don't know: have people actually paid in advance for the game (as opposed to e.g. pledging in a P500 program that they'll pay when the game is published)? As I said, "if I'm mistaken, please correct me!"
 
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John Foley
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Hi Gavin,

It seems like you have read all the development updates I have posted so far, so that should mostly bring you abreast of the work in progress on my side.

The most reliable information I can provide is to describe where things are in the process.

- Tomorrow, I will review the final edits to the counter sheets provided back from the artist (as well as final edits to the cards and maps). The counter sheets will be ganged together with another large order by Compass - in the works to go to press in a few weeks.

- This will mean all the graphics components will be settled.

- JB is working through a full side-by-side review of the entire package that I prepared for him weeks ago. This is a couple hundred pages generated from nearly 60 files.

- He is likely to need more time to work through that and then when he is finished, he'll ship everything back to me, I'll apply all the edits, revise any illustrations, the indexes, player aids, and so on.

- I will then deliver all of the files to Ken so he can start to design and compose the final presentation of the rules and aids.

- My original work estimate proposed that it would take us a full month to compose (from start through iterations and proof) each of the major components - three rule booklets and the 15 player aids (meaning actually 30 pages on 15 sheets) for the three games. That's four months sequentially (mostly nights and weekends).

- That was a guess - we'll see how we actually do. It would be wonderful to go faster, but I insist that sufficient proofreading be done at each step.

- It's next to impossible to publish a delivery date when materials still have to be composed, proofed and finalized. Real dates can be discussed when physical materials, quantities and production rates are the currency of discussion.

I hope I have provided and can continue to provide you with information about progress and the process to get to final. I invite you to contact me separately if you have more questions or concerns. Perhaps you'd be willing to help proofread the final composed materials prior to going to press? Let me know.

Thank you,
John
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Greg Love
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[/q]This isn't "angst," which is individual, it's frustration, which is relational. Calling it angst is dismissive, saying the problem is inside the person, rather than admitting the problem is in the relationship between buyer and seller. [/q]

I think that's really just splitting hairs over the semantics of the word "angst".
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David Siskin
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Thanks John!
 
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John Foley
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You are welcome David!

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Steven McBride
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russ wrote:
Tinimini wrote:
russ wrote:

It seems like complaining that an author didn't finish writing a novel as quickly as you liked.


Hmm.. Not quite, considering you usually don't pay the author in advance for the novel.


I only recently started following this game, so I simply don't know: have people actually paid in advance for the game (as opposed to e.g. pledging in a P500 program that they'll pay when the game is published)? As I said, "if I'm mistaken, please correct me!"


I paid up front. Which I actually kind of like. I had the money for it then and now all I have to do is wait for its arrival. If it was like GMT's P500 system, I wouldnt have the money any time soon.
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Philippe Talon
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I pre-ordered it today and paid. Now all there is is to wait
 
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John Foley
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Thank you. As each outlined step occurs, I will post an update. For travel and business reasons, we are going to be quiet for 3-4 weeks.

Once I deliver the Golden Master to Ken to start composition, I will contact everyone who has volunteered to do post-proofing. At that time other readers who are interested should feel free to contact me to understand what is needed.
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Rich M
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Any new updates on a ship date for this game? Thanks
 
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Keiron
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Compass Games has it releasing on the 1st September 2014.
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Rich M
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Kappa_ap wrote:
Compass Games has it releasing on the 1st September 2014.

Keiron, thanks
 
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Ted Spencer
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zombiewarrior07 wrote:
Quote:
This isn't "angst," which is individual, it's frustration, which is relational. Calling it angst is dismissive, saying the problem is inside the person, rather than admitting the problem is in the relationship between buyer and seller.
I think that's really just splitting hairs over the semantics of the word "angst".
Maybe, but we often attribute to our individual selves what is properly caused by a relationship.
 
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John Foley
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We are still in the composition stage for the rule books and aids, they are not yet ready for post-proofing.
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Rui Serrabulho
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You have to, at least from a distance, look as if you know what you're doing, and I can manage that.
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Am I still in time to preorder?
 
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John Foley
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Did you want me to continue to comment or not?
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Ted Spencer
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Of course! Info is good!
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Rich M
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Wow this one really moved out its expected deliver date. It is now Nov 2014. I bet more likely early 2015.
 
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David Siskin
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Rockin Rocko wrote:
Wow this one really moved out its expected deliver date. It is now Nov 2014.

That seems to be taken from the Compass Games website.

Oh well. We'll get it eventually and it will be wonderful when we do. This is a very complicated game to produce correctly and I'd rather have all the errata caught before it goes out the door.
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