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Tide of Iron: Days of the Fox» Forums » Rules

Subject: Hidden unit and AT Gun question rss

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Hugh J Jones
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About to play Hellfire pass later this afternoon with a friend. I have a question though about hidden units and AT guns. If an AT gun is activated to fire and the only friendly squad in the AT gun's hex is a friendly hidden unit, does this reveal the hidden unit? I can see some balance problems if it doesn't reveal the hidden unit especially in this scenario as the scenario special rules state that the two 88s may not be targeted or attacked. You cannot target hidden units either so essentially you'd get two immune 88s for this scenario.

Also why I'm at it another hypothetical, if a hidden unit moves an AT gun would this remove their hidden token? Thematically it seems like it should, "Lieutenant, there's an 88 rolling across that field over there!", "Hmmm, I see no men pushing it, yes yes, seems to be Ghost Huns, radio Battalion and have them send in the Vicar to perform a field exorcism. Damned Jerrys quite under handed and ungentlemanly in their tactics they are, hrrmf."
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clive holland
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Regarding the first question, The unit remains hidden. This has been answered here:-

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/7938663#7938663

Chris Hillery has the answer.

Second question. If the unit remains in concealing terrain and is not in LOS of an enemy unit then it would remain concealed. If not moving into concealing terrain such as buildings, woods etc and there is LOS it is revealed.

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Ray
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You will find the answer to your questions and many more in the RCD file:

There is a link to it from the Tide of Iron page (under More Information), but here it is:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/55401/rules-clarificat...
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Hugh J Jones
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Thanks for the quick reply. I can't believe I didn't see that in the faq. I have it printed out and read through the DOTF section not once, not twice but thrice and some how missed each time.

I actually don't mind the hidden AT gun crews, as the gun itself can still be targeted. It's just in Hellfire pass the special scenario rule disallows shooting at the gun. I guess for this scenario the guns are just very, very well hidden.

This will be the third time I've played the scenario. I don't recall much from the other two times as the most recent was i'd say two or three years ago. I for see rough going for the British.
 
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Nathaniel Beck
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Basically the British have to rush towards the hills and get into the blind spots while the squads rush up adjacent and reveal the hidden squads and hope they don't take too many casualties coming across the killing ground.
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bill jaffe
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yes the 88's are well hidden.
In my research on the Hellfire pass the Germans dug the 88's in and made them so hard to spot that the British really had no idea where the shots where coming from
yes the best move for the British is to rush the position and hope that numbers will overwhelm

bill
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Hugh J Jones
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As we began to play I remembered that the previous two times the British had in fact won. This time I was the Germans. The funny thing is every time my main Tide of Iron opponent and I play we roll to see who's which side and He's always the Germans and I'm the Allies. We've been playing the game since it came out and I've only been the Germans maybe a handful of times.

So Hellfire pass how did it go this time? How did the hidden 88s effect things? I guess what follows a is a short after action report.

So basically I focused on keeping the initiative the entire game so I could blast the tanks as they entered before they could have a chance to move off behind LOS blocking terrain. I only destroyed 2 the rest were heavily damaged. Once a tank was heavily damaged I ignored them, as they were no longer capable of moving thus they could not take objectives. Of course this meant I'd have to take pot shots from them the rest of the game but at heavily damaged status the Matildas and Crusaders are pretty weak, especially at long range. All the tanks were knocked out on the road, save for one Matilda that managed to skirt behind the sand dunes in the east and then rush onto the eastern hill. I had a squad of 3 rifles and an elite run up and attack adjacent heavily damaging it, at this time the machine gun nest on the hill which was adjacent finished it off.

My plan for the infantry was to keep them hidden as long as possible, one the tanks were all immobilized or destroyed they revealed them selves and tried to suppress and kill as many of the Brits as possible as they rushed across the desert at me, the rules of engagement was basically to fire for suppression on all rifle squads and fire for kills on any team with elites of an officer.

Artillery strikes and mortars began to suppress the hell out of my force on the west hill, allowing the western UK infantry force to reach the hill. The eastern UK infantry placed their machinegun on the dunes while the men ran up the road. The game went on to the last move of the game, The UK had taken the eastern 88 site, and with their last action declared an assault on the west 88 from 3 spaces away. The west 88 was manned by a lone rifleman, both him and the 88 were in opfire thanks to the morale card desperation. That same round the 88 fired and killed an adjacent team of three elites in one shot, then used desperation to flip the fatigue token to opfire. So the last action of the last turn the UK squad of four men rushed towards the 88, op fire four dice four hits, the game is won. The lone German gun crewman received the Iron cross for holding the hill nearly single handed. Another game making shot was that there were three UK squads only two spaces away from the 88 but my mortar managed a shot that pinned all three of them, effectively making them worthless on the final round, that was the first shot of the last round to boot.

All in all it was very close. The thing for me that was intriguing was that I'm so used to being the Americans and occasionally the UK; in nearly all of their missions they are on the offensive and I have to focus on advancing, minimizing casualties while at the same time reaching an objective on a time limit. Playing the Germans on the defensive is such a different feel, being out numbered and just holding a position was not what I'm used to. I feel less in control on the defensive, if I'm not maneuvering I feel like it's all up to the gods of the dice. On the defense you win or lose before the game for the most part as it all depends on your set up and positioning pre-battle. The same can be said about pre-battle positioning while on the offensive, however you usually have more opportunity to re-position your forces during the battle.

By the way when I mention it's up to the dice gods, I don't mean that negatively, as in TOI I consider the dice to be the X factor representing the men on the battle field and their performance. As in real life the best plan is at the mercy of execution. Superb die rolls represent to me things such as heroic men, an Auddie Murphy for example, poor die rools, it's a bad day perhaps the men on the field didn't get rest or a machine gun jammed at an inopportune moment.

Any way I'm basically rambling so I'll close with Good scenario.



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bill jaffe
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well i'm glad the scenario went to the last round
yes defense is hard to play because you do feel passive and it's sometimes very easy to lose a game with a bad decision and rarely can you recover from such a choice.

bill

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