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D-Day at Omaha Beach» Forums » Rules

Subject: Can U.S. control a German occupied hex? rss

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James Bergstrom
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Here is the situation: Out of the observer positions for off-board artillary 1/1352, only WN62S remains. However, WN62S is disrupted and surrounded by two three-step infrantry units ready to attack. For purposes of determining whether my last surviving tank gets blown to bits by 1/1352, is WN62S an eligible observer?

Here are the relevant rules that I can find:

Rule 6.51 - "...If all the observer positions listed for a given artillary unit are in your control, flip the artillary unit to its inactive side - it no long contributes to German artillery fire. However, if any of those positions subsequently becomes occupied by a German unit or in German communication, the artillery unit for which the position is spotting becomes active again."

Rule 12.1 - "A US unit of either of the following types controls the hex it occupies and the adjacent hexes around it even if disrupted: infantry with two or three steps..."

So I guess it boils down to this: Can a US two-step infantry control an adjacent, German-occupied hex, and thereby disqualify it as an observer? This seems unlikely, but rule 12 defining US control doesn't require adjacent hexes to be free of ze Germans, and gaining control is enough to knock out an observer.

I don't think this is right. Please point me to the right rule if I am wrong.

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Niko
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The rules seem to be using various concepts here rather than sticking to one. As such I'm just as confused as you are, but I'll give you my interpretation of it.

6.51 - "[...]...If all the observer positions listed for a given artillery unit are in your control, flip the artillery unit to its inactive side - it no long contributes to German artillery fire."
This together with the quote you provided for 12.1 indicates that the WN does not act as a spotter and since all other spotters are already under your control (at least that's what I interpret "only WN62S remains" to mean) 1/1352 is inactive and doesn't count towards the amount of available artillery.

The problem is that the part of 6.51 talking about reactivating off-board artillery doesn't use control, but communication/occupancy which are separate concepts from control.

Now when following RAW to the letter the important question is if WN62S was empty at any point while 1/1352 did not have active spotters?
The relevant rule section here is "[...]if any of those positions subsequently becomes occupied by a German unit [...]" since subsequently refers to the time when the off-board artillery becomes inactive.

As I see it you have two different checks depending on if the artillery is currently active or inactive:
1) If the artillery is active you check if all spotters are under US control, if yes the artillery becomes inactive
2) If the artillery is inactive you check if any of the spotters have become German occupied or got into German communications. The artillery becomes active only if either state changes while the artillery is inactive. I.e. if a spotter is in German communications as the artillery becomes inactive it will not cause the artillery to become active since the spotter has to go from no communication to in communication while the artillery is inactive.


Now I think that's a pretty weird way to handle things and would probably simplify it to spotters only don't count if not in German communication. If the WN is occupied 12.22 applies meaning German occupancy makes communication easier but not guaranteed.
The only real change as I see it is that you do not have to have control to deactivate the spotter (but realistically this will only happen if you managed to kill the Germans without adjacent step 2/3 counters which I have yet to see happen in my games).
I am not sure if there's any way for German to re-occupy WNs if they are not within communications in the extended game, but I do not believe so.
Of course this is technically a variant, and not a well playtested one at that
 
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Steve Norton
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I think the WN is an active spotter. The rule says pretty clearly that if the hex is occupied (or in German communication) then that is the case.

Furthermore, just because you have adjacent units does not mean that the hex is in your control:

12.21 A German unit in a hex adjacent to a US unit negates US control of that hex for purposes of tracing German communication through the hex, including tracing communication for the German unit itself.

You say that you have two US units "surrounding" the position and so it seems pretty certain that the position is not only occupied but also in German communication.
 
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Niko
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ReggieMcFly wrote:
I think the WN is an active spotter. The rule says pretty clearly that if the hex is occupied (or in German communication) then that is the case.
But the rules say that the artillery becomes active if a spotter WN becomes German occupied rather than is German occupied, ditto for communications.

ReggieMcFly wrote:
Furthermore, just because you have adjacent units does not mean that the hex is in your control:

12.21 A German unit in a hex adjacent to a US unit negates US control of that hex for purposes of tracing German communication through the hex, including tracing communication for the German unit itself.

You say that you have two US units "surrounding" the position and so it seems pretty certain that the position is not only occupied but also in German communication.
As long as there is one unit (that can control adjacent hexes) in 0911 or 1011 and another in 0913 or 1012 WN62S is cut off from German communication. Whether or not this is the case needs to be answered by James.
In addition the rule you are quoting specifies that it negates US control for purposes of tracing German communication. It has no influence over US control for the purpose of preventing artillery spotters.
 
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Steve Norton
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Yes, ok. I confess I did not look at the map. So the WN is likely to be out of communication. So it just comes down to whether or not a German occupied hex can be in US control.

The section of the rules on US control makes no mention of German occupation - so maybe the WN is no longer spotting? This seems completely counter-intuitive to me - why can the WN not get on the radio and call in the big guns? If it was my game I would knock out the tank.
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Niko
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One of the advantages of having a spare table to leave games set up: you don't have to pull things out of a box to take a quick look

I agree that neither RAW nor my attempt at simplifying it make much sense. On the other hand disruption isn't included in the evaluation at all and between two US companies entering the trenches, being shelled by tanks (or whatever else caused the disruption), and other general mayhem currently going on it makes some sense that they can't give accurate target locations.
Thematic justification takes a back seat for me as long as a reasonable explanation can be found for whatever mechanic is chosen in the end. I prefer an enjoyable game over an overly complex simulation.
 
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