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DC Comics Deck-Building Game: Heroes Unite» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Mind Control Hat rss

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Dustin Born

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With the Jervis Tetch effect, does the played Villains and Heroes get temporarily removed from the Line-Up and then returned after it resolves?

A friend told me about a scenario where his opponent played Jervis Tetch and then Mind Control Hat to play Plastic Man and Brother Blood (+4 Power). Can Plastic Man copy Mind Control Hat to play Plastic Man and Brother Blood again? Which would generate infinite Power
 
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Jonathan Ramundi
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1. The cards played are returned to the line-up afterward. Note that this means they are ineligible for purchase.

2. Pretty sure the way the cards in question read would allow you to copy Mind Control Hat for the card draw and Attack abilities, but the third ability fizzles because mind control hat is already 'controlling' cards from the lineup. Those cards are "played" and therefore not in the lineup and therefore ineligible targets for the ability.

I have a question about MCH however:

The way the card reads seems it's either an all or nothing ability--you either play all the villains and heroes in the line-up or none--or you can choose which ones to play and which ones to leave (and possibly purchase). I assume it's the latter, but wasn't 100% sure.
 
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Matt Hyra
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Every card that is played in a weird way temporarily leaves where it was to enter play.
So that combo does not work.

Thanks,
Matt Hyra
Cryptozoic R&D
 
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Matt Hyra
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Jotora wrote:
I have a question about MCH however:

The way the card reads seems it's either an all or nothing ability--you either play all the villains and heroes in the line-up or none--or you can choose which ones to play and which ones to leave (and possibly purchase). I assume it's the latter, but wasn't 100% sure.


You can pick and choose.

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Matt Hyra
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Steven Herandez
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MachineMaster9613 wrote:
With the Jervis Tetch effect, does the played Villains and Heroes get temporarily removed from the Line-Up and then returned after it resolves?

A friend told me about a scenario where his opponent played Jervis Tetch and then Mind Control Hat to play Plastic Man and Brother Blood (+4 Power). Can Plastic Man copy Mind Control Hat to play Plastic Man and Brother Blood again? Which would generate infinite Power


Since plastic man is in the process of being"mind control hat", you have to keep him in your play zone until the effects of MCH IS all over.once you finished playing all the villains and Heroes in the line up, then put plastic man back.

Really good question man.
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Dustin Born

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That's what I thought. Thank you.
 
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Adam Dickson
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Love the game, but this combo has me scratching my head.

If the cards used by MCH are not available to buy then why is the wording on that card different from the wording on Granny Goodness, a card that makes it clear that the card you use is considered in the play area and not the Line-Up.

MCH - "... you may play each Hero and Villain in the Line-Up, then return them to the Line-Up."

GG - "Remove a Hero or Villain from the Line-Up. Play it, then return it to the Line-Up at the end of your turn."

I always thought that the 'return it at the end of your turn' was an important variation to 'then return it.' Does this also mean that you have no ability to purchase the card you play with the Super Power 'Shazam!' whose text says "Reveal and play the top card of the main deck, then return it to the top of the main deck?"

Thanks for all the clarifications on the rules, I really appreciate the input.
 
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Matt Hyra
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adamhdickson wrote:
Love the game, but this combo has me scratching my head.

If the cards used by MCH are not available to buy then why is the wording on that card different from the wording on Granny Goodness, a card that makes it clear that the card you use is considered in the play area and not the Line-Up.


The cards from MCH are available to be bought. They are just not available to be played again by another copy of MCH while they are resolving.

Thanks,
Matt Hyra
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Jared Boettcher
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Matt, could you please explain in depth why this combo does not infinite loop? I'm more curious about clayface in this trio combo because it says then play it later this turn, meaning it has time to return to the line up.

I know infinite combos "aren't fun", but this should loop exactly as the cards read, because the MCH specifies that they return to the line-up after being played.

If you could explain more in-depth as to why it "doesn't work", because if it's available to be bought that means it's back in the line-up and that means they will all hit from the new copy of hat (specifically from clayface, because it is worded differently than plastic-man.

Thanks!
 
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Matt Hyra
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Clayface doesn't say "later on." You have to play it again immediately.

If you play a card that is in the Line-Up, and that card allows you to play or copy another card, the card that was in the Line-Up granting this ability is not yet back in the Line-Up while it is still resolving. It is still resolving because it is currently resolving some other card.

Thanks,
Matt Hyra
Cryptozoic R&D
 
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Jared Boettcher
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"Play it again this turn", is the exact wording on clayface. There is no immediate clause meaning you can re-order things before playing it if needed. So I beg to differ on that. You can choose the order of cards, let each other villain and hero resolve, then play clay face (which allows you to play hat later, this resolving all of clay face and letting him go back). That's how I would understand it, because that's exactly how the cards read. If you want to take this in a private message to discuss rather than clog the forums let me know, I just want to understand why I'm not understanding or why it's being overlooked.

I agree plastic-man doesn't work because it is worded differently though. I also agree with everything you said after trying to debunk clayface, but that's not the situation, because you are resolving everything besides clay face, then casting and letting clay face resolve, then recasting hat. Should be an infinite loop this way.
 
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Steven Herandez
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If you MCH and clay face is in the line up, once you play that clay face and it copies MCH, you do the ability again, but Clayface is not in the line up any more.

Until the Clayface that played MCH is finished being resolved completely,then is when Clayface goes back into the line up.
 
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Jared Boettcher
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If clayface is the last one played it will resolve putting itself back in the line-up then you can play your clayface'd MCH and clay face would be there yet again. "Play it again this turn" means you can fully resolve all of the first MCH before casting the next one, meaning an infinite loop.
 
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Steven Herandez
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If you're playing MCH played by the Clayface in the line up by MCH, that clay face does not go back into the line up.

As soon as you copy MCH with the Clayface in the line up, it is being resolved until the Clayface'd MCH is finished playing all the heroes and villains in the line up.

Once the CLAYFACE'D MCH is finished, the clay face goes back in to the line up.
 
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Jared Boettcher
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Please and go read clayface.

"Choose a card you played this turn. Play it again this turn."

It does not COPY, it just allows you to play it again later in your turn, or whenever you want. Meaning clayface resolves when you choose the card you want to replay, but before you replay it. It has totally different wording than plastic-man, meaning they resolve in different ways. Once clay face is done resolving, he goes back to the line up (per the instructions on the first MCH) then you can play the second one (via clayface).

It's basically the way clay face is worded that is the main issue, because there is no immediate (or copy) clause. Unless I got two misprinted clayfaces.

I can understand if the game is trying to avoid infinite loops because they "aren't fun", but if there is a loop I don't want it to be denied.
 
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Steven Herandez
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I know it doesn't copy.

It doesn't let you play a card later on during your turn. As soon as you play clay face, you have to use his ability.

The way you are PLAYING MCH is because of Clayface.

Because of what I just said, Clayface is playing MCH, and anything being played is in your play area at that very moment.
 
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Jared Boettcher
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Why do you have to play it immediately? It just says play it again this turn, meaning whenever you want. It doesn't state just "play it again". I think you are not read in clayface correctly, because it doesn't force you to cast it right away.
 
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Steven Herandez
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Once you play the card ability resolves right there. That is how this game is done man.

You can't save the ability of Clayface for your benefit when you play it.


 
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Jared Boettcher
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I understand that. But clayface specificaly days play it again this turn. Meaning clayface is done resolving before you play the hat again. You can't play the hat again until clayface is done resolving the way it's worded, meaning clayface would be back in the line-up. That's just how resolving things plays out if you read the cards for what they are.
 
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Matt Hyra
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Illethia wrote:
"Play it again this turn", is the exact wording on clayface. There is no immediate clause meaning you can re-order things before playing it if needed.


If you play a card that says "Draw a card" you don't get to choose when to draw that card. You draw it immediately. There doesn't need to be the words "immediately" on it, as it just says to do something, so you do it.

Same goes for Clayface.

As part of Clayface's resolution, before it goes anywhere, or is done resolving, it plays another card.
The other card gets played.
Clayface is still resolving.
The other card is now resolved.
Clayface has now resolved.

(Last I'll comment here. Start a new thread if you want more.)

Thanks,
Matt Hyra
Cryptozoic R&D
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