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Subject: Thoughts after a few plays rss

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Mr Deltaz
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I have only played the game twice so far and I am enjoying it a lot so far.

I played with two different groups so I had to teach both times. The second game had a very slow start because we had two players (lets call them the attacking players) that were constantly attacking the other two players (lets call them the expanding players) that were trying to construct quantum cubes. The thing is that the "expanding players" then had to fight back the "attacking players" to attempt to setup again for their cube construction so the dominance of one player never really hit 6 for a long time. This went on for a while with no cubes being placed.

I noticed this so I decided to slow down a bit and gather a few advanced cards (by spending most of my actions on research rather than deploying) that would give me an edge on the board which slowed me down a lot at the beginning but paid off at the end.

My question is, has anyone ever encountered a situation where the game just doesn't move forward because of so much attacking?

That is probably the one thing that is making me nervous about this game, that it outstays its welcome.

Bonus question: What if all the places where you can deploy are used up by enemy troops and you have no dice in the board?

 
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Daniel Bee
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Deltas wrote:

Bonus question: What if all the places where you can deploy are used up by enemy troops and you have no dice in the board?


Rules say that you can't have less than two ships !
 
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Mr Deltaz
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Bonecrusher wrote:
Deltas wrote:

Bonus question: What if all the places where you can deploy are used up by enemy troops and you have no dice in the board?


Rules say that you can't have less than two ships !


O_O I don't remember reading that! Can you point me to the page number?
 
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Maarten D. de Jong
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I cannot remember having read that you cannot have less than two ships either. Unless Eric added that as an updated rule, but I can hardly imagine why. It would gut the combat system.

Anyhow, I would assume that if the attacks result in a stalemate that the attackers lay off after a while and try something different. The game should not have to deal with players who are not playing to win but to stall instead. It should be obvious that there is nothing in the rules that would give any player an advantage over any other by continued combat exchanges. You eventually did the right thing: stock up on Research. Then interests diverge sufficiently for the game to move forward. If this makes you go 'Hhn, not much strategy then', then you would be absolutely right. Quantum is not, nor is it meant to be, a game with complex decisions or lots of paths to victory.
 
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Ian Clévy
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Bonecrusher wrote:
Deltas wrote:

Bonus question: What if all the places where you can deploy are used up by enemy troops and you have no dice in the board?


Rules say that you can't have less than two ships !


Hmm I don't think this is true. How would you manage it anyway? Your last two ships are just invincible?

If there is no place to deploy I think you just can't deploy. You can just do the research action or reconfigure the ships in you scrapyard.

This may seem unfair but it makes sense if you think about it:

Even if you still only have one planet just one player would have to have at least one expansion to block you. Even with both expansions they can't keep all their ships around your planet because they can't do anything else either--they need four ships to block you and will only have one left to do other things.

Two players could gang up on you but two ships from each player around your planet would still be needed--so at least one expansion each or else they can't do anything with their one remaining ship. They will likely loose to the forth player who has more available ships.

I guess if your three opponents gang up on you to block you it could work. But I think this either means you are to good for them and they are scared of letting you win or there is something they just don't like about you

Realistically, you won't be blocked for more than a turn or two, while the other players put cubes on your home planet. This may make you lose the game--not necessarily because you can stock up on research while you are blocked--but, either way, I think it also means that something went wrong with you tactics well before your opponent was able to get such an advantage.



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King Maple
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How is it even possible for the game of Quantum 'not to finish'? I'm thinking that you either forgot to move the Dominance die or played it wrong. Remember that Dominance only moves up if a ship gets destroyed. Dominance does not move up or down if ship is not destroyed during an attack.

In my games, it's all very balanced. If someone attacks too much then obviously they cannot catch up to much faster 'cube-placing' ships. I cannot even fathom how it would be possible.

This game is very balanced. You gain a lot of dominance if you are able to attack with low number ships because the odds are in your favor. But in that case you cannot place cubes unless you have better ships.

Make sure you didn't play rules incorrectly. Another common one is that just because you get a new ship, doesn't mean you get an additional move that turn. Also you cannot apply move or special ability twice on any of your ships (even if a card gives you extra move action, it has to be spent on a die that hasn't moved yet).

Bonecrusher wrote:
Deltas wrote:

Bonus question: What if all the places where you can deploy are used up by enemy troops and you have no dice in the board?


Rules say that you can't have less than two ships !


This is something you made up in your sleep.

As for the question: If all places are deployed, you should just increase research. Sooner or later you get to move a quantum cube. No player would spend time holding you locked like that while you get free selection of cards in the game. It's too expensive (four dice for just one planet).
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Mr Deltaz
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Quote:
How is it even possible for the game of Quantum 'not to finish'? I'm thinking that you either forgot to move the Dominance die or played it wrong. Remember that Dominance only moves up if a ship gets destroyed. Dominance does not move up or down if ship is not destroyed during an attack.


We played that right
Quote:

In my games, it's all very balanced. If someone attacks too much then obviously they cannot catch up to much faster 'cube-placing' ships. I cannot even fathom how it would be possible.


Not too hard, on the base maps you and your opponent only need 2/3 moves to go to an adjacent planet, and you will meet an enemy on every direction. Use warp and transport and you can get your number 1s into battle every turn. I destroy 1/2 ship(s), dominance goes up by 1/2. Next turn my opponent destroys 1/2 of my ship(s), dominance goes down by 1/2. This happened for a few rounds in our game and that is why I decided to focus on research for a while since I saw a couple of cards that would help me in battles to counter the aggressive players. After I got a couple of cards on my belt I was able to get ahead of the aggressive players.

Quote:
Make sure you didn't play rules incorrectly. Another common one is that just because you get a new ship, doesn't mean you get an additional move that turn. Also you cannot apply move or special ability twice on any of your ships (even if a card gives you extra move action, it has to be spent on a die that hasn't moved yet).

Both of them played properly.

In any case, I am really enjoying the game but my wife has concerns of the stale mate that we experienced at the beginning and that may cause the game to drag on so I am trying to put her fears to rest so that she would be up to playing it more often.

 
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Marlene Thornstrom
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If there's concern about the game being bogged down by too much fighting, perhaps select a larger map layout so there will be less conflict?
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King Maple
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Warp-Battleship strategy does not work all that well. A basic map requires minimum of 9 movement spaces vertically or horizontally, and 17 diagonally. Warp ship can move only 3 spaces.

Warp is a one-time strategy, even if you are able to get battlestation into battle quickly, by that point your warp ship is far apart and either needs to warp and move again, but it cannot warp battlestation in again before one turn later. This is a really laggy strategy.

I wish I could see playthrough of your game to point out things that could have been done differently. If a good attacker gains a lot of ground then they will win the game pretty quickly (due to dominance). If a good cube-placer gains a lot of ground quickly, then they win the game (due to cubes). If facing a heavy attacker, then it's a good idea to get battle-related cards when placing cubes and force them to think differently.

Quantum is a game of action-reaction, I don't see how the game could get bogged down unless players just don't want to try and think outside the box.

I wish it could be played online, I'd love to try it out with you a few times and see if we can repeat that situation.
 
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Maarten D. de Jong
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Slashdoctor wrote:
Quantum is a game of action-reaction, I don't see how the game could get bogged down unless players just don't want to try and think outside the box. I wish it could be played online, I'd love to try it out with you a few times and see if we can repeat that situation.

The OP clearly indicated what went wrong: he did not focus on something else (= research) at first. The game moved ahead when he did. If you want to repeat the situation, don't use research and see what happens.
 
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King Maple
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cymric wrote:
Slashdoctor wrote:
Quantum is a game of action-reaction, I don't see how the game could get bogged down unless players just don't want to try and think outside the box. I wish it could be played online, I'd love to try it out with you a few times and see if we can repeat that situation.

The OP clearly indicated what went wrong: he did not focus on something else (= research) at first. The game moved ahead when he did. If you want to repeat the situation, don't use research and see what happens.


Agreed.

I am absolutely in love with Quantum myself. I love that the game builds up quickly - it's rarely the case when you cannot get your first cube and distinctive ability in the first few turns. And then the map becomes smaller, you get used to what powers and tactics everyone has and then it's a huge epic finale and struggle to score that last cube. I love that there are two ways to place a cube - through conflict and placement - and that they feel immensely balancing.

I think that Quantum is a masterpiece by Eric Zimmerman. It is currently flying heavily under radar though as it's not been reviewed or even mentioned by Dice Tower guys and other major board game reviewers (except UndeadViking, who loved it).

Here's hoping that the initial component quality problem and rules clarifications didn't throw a wrench into what is a one of the best semi-thematic abstract board games I've ever played.
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