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Space Empires: 4X» Forums » Rules

Subject: The Winner wishes to retreat as well! rss

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Joel Langenfeld
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This will be a question of who can retreat and when...

First the RAW that seems most revelant, and unfortunately inconsistant.

5.1 Combat Procedure
5.1.1 General: [..snip..] Both the attacker’s units and the defender’s may fire,
often more than once, and combat continues until only one player
has units remaining in the hex
.

and
5.1.5 Resolve Combat: Players resolve combat starting with the
A Class units, progressing to the B Class units, and so forth in
descending order, until all ships have had the opportunity to fire. ...

And here's the situation that puts it to the test. Two fleets (invaders), in separate hexes, are bearing down on a colony defended by a "home fleet". The home fleet sorties, attacking one of the fleets. Early in round 2, the invader retreats, leaving the home fleet alone in the hex. However, the majority of the home fleet has yet to fire, and would like to retreat back to the colony.

Is this disallowed, as combat ended as per 5.1.1, or is this allowed, as 5.1.5 mandates that they be given the opportunity to fire [or retreat]?
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Phil Miller
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Check 5.1.6 last sentence.

After the first round is completed a unit which has an opportunity to fire at a target may retreat instead (see 5.9).

Since there is no target to fire on, I don't believe you are allowed to retreat.

-Phil
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Joel Langenfeld
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PhilFromIT wrote:
Check 5.1.6 last sentence.

After the first round is completed a unit which has an opportunity to fire at a target may retreat instead (see 5.9).

Since there is no target to fire on, I don't believe you are allowed to retreat.

-Phil


That particular phrase has been reinterpretted on a number of threads - for example, check the one on whether or not screened ships are allowed to retreat.

In any event, it is even less clear whether 5.1.5 or 5.1.9 should have precedence than 5.1.5 vs 5.1.1.
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Phil Miller
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Yeah that is just my interpretation of the rule. Maybe Jim will come in and make an official ruling...

-Phil
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Niko
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I too hope we'll get an official ruling as the rules as written are pretty ambiguous.

Personally I've treated 5.1.1 as having precedence. I.e. combat ends immediately when only one side has ships remaining in the hex.

As for screened ships firing I've interpreted it as bad wording in 5.9.1 and read it along the lines of "[...]a ship may choose to retreat. If it does so it may not fire in the same round." The next sentence is still fine, since a screened ship still has it's turn to fire but can't actually fire since it's screened.

It solves the issues in what I believe is a thematic and balanced way.
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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Some quick official rulings...

- Screened ships may not fire.
- Once the last enemy ship is destroyed, the combat is over and there is no retreating at that point.

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Joel Langenfeld
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Jim Krohn wrote:
Some quick official rulings...

- Screened ships may not fire.
- Once the last enemy ship is destroyed, the combat is over and there is no retreating at that point.



Fair enough, though neither are completely on topic.

The discussion of screened ships was a labored attempt at constructing an interpretation of inconsistent RAW. The second suggests at least a minor misreading of the OP.
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Niko
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I think the difference between the last enemy ship being destroyed and the last enemy ship retreating is only in what happens to that ship, not in what happens to the combat.
I.e. Jim's second ruling means the answer to your original question is no, they may not retreat.
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Joel Langenfeld
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Agreed, or at least that is the most likely. Jim has been very gracious in responding to every rule inquiry I've seen posted here. I was attempting to drop a subtle hint that his reading of this thread may have overlooked a point or two.
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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Quote:
I was attempting to drop a subtle hint that his reading of this thread may have overlooked a point or two.




Check the microbadge that I am displaying at the moment (limited access to BGG).

Time will not allow me to be into subtle for at least a few more weeks. I just rushed thru the thread. Sorry!

If the last enemy ship is destroyed or retreats, then the attacker may not retreat because the combat is over.
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Joel Langenfeld
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Thanks, Jim
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