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Subject: Battlelore or Conflict of heroes? rss

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Elyse S.
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I had a thread a few weeks ago for war games and it has come down to 2 choices.
BattleLore (Second Edition) seems tactical enough with a semi random setup. Lighter so it might get to the table more. It's a FFG so there will probably be expansions for it later.
Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! (second edition) More war gamey(I'm pretending that's a word), nice components, more strategy and tactics then Battlelore? Expansions already out.

I ordered Coh but then canceled. Naturally I am inclined to buy all the games but my husband would complain.

Thoughts on either?
 
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Aaron Gelb
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I had CoH...nice game...traded it as the Russian front didn't interest me much...waiting for the Normandy version. Its a medium weight war game...and it feels like a "wargame".

Battlelore, although tactical, feels more like a miniatures wargame with more dice chuckin', magic thrown in, etc.

Both companies have/will have expansions for their games..but the two only share the tactical nature..the rest (gameplay, mechanisms, components, genre,etc) are totally different.

I'd get the one that you love the genre of better...and if you're a fantasy fan/miniatures fan definitely get Battlelore.

 
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Elyse S.
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I know they are totally different.
We haven't played a "wargame" so I was looking for an entry level one but then Battlelore caught my eye.
My husband remembers the good ol' days of playing Axis and Allies but we don't have time to do a 2+ hour game most of the time.

Unfortunately I can't try games before I buy them so I have to choose based on research. I have just been flip flopping and can't decide. Normally I can tell if I will like a game but since war games are something I haven't really played I can't seem to gauge if I would find it enjoyable.


 
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Captain Spaulding
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I used to play Battlelore with my wife and she liked it a lot. People will inevitibably try to get you to look into the other Command and Colors games - but for me, Battlelore is the most fun - it has by far the coolest components, and it's the only one with "Lore" (spells) which was my wife's favorite part of the game. Ultimately I traded it because of the long setup and play time.

We didn't play Conflict of Heroes, but we did play Tide of Iron a few times, (Fantasy Flight's WWII game with roughly the same complexity as Conflict of Heroes) but it was too long and the rules were too unwieldy. Too many little exceptions, too much time with scouring the rule book rather than playing. Battlelore was playable in an evening after work, not so with Tide of Iron. It was fun, but actually getting it to the table was rare.
 
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B. L.
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Conflict of Heroes out of the two. The rules are introduced in parts so you can learn at your own pace. The first firefight can be easily played under an hour and is more fun than I ever had with Memoir 44. CoH is a wargame though so I would say it may have a little more complexity than BL.

Have you looked at Diskwars as it looks like a good combination of the two?
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Jakub Kurczyna
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Yeah, Battlelore may play a bit easier and quicker, but if they went the same way as with Battles of Westeros, the set up is just a nightmare - on the other hand in Battlelore you don't have the banners, so that's an improvement on set up
 
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Elyse S.
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Bryan L wrote:


Have you looked at Diskwars as it looks like a good combination of the two?



Do you mean that new one Warhammer: Diskwars? I haven't looked at it mostly because it has Warhammer in the title.
 
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Chris
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Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars, where you will be forced to drift aimlessly farther into the vast, empty abyss of space until a lack of food, water and oxygen causes you to succumb to Death's cold embrace.
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honeybunnie8 wrote:
I had a thread a few weeks ago for war games and it has come down to 2 choices.
BattleLore (Second Edition) seems tactical enough with a semi random setup. Lighter so it might get to the table more. It's a FFG so there will probably be expansions for it later.
Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! (second edition) More war gamey(I'm pretending that's a word), nice components, more strategy and tactics then Battlelore? Expansions already out.

I ordered Coh but then canceled. Naturally I am inclined to buy all the games but my husband would complain.

Thoughts on either?
If you're possibly looking to split the difference between these two, simple system with a real battle feel, then 1775: Rebellion would be a GREAT choice. Same designer / publisher as CoH but lighter, with a really nice dice based battle system. It's my first wargame, and has been a great intro to that world so far. Also just won The Golden Geek for best Wargame.
 
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B. L.
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Yep that's the one. Its worth a look even if you're not a Warhammer fan.
 
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James C
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Please note that 1775 is very different game than the others.
1775 is an "area control game" like Axis and Allies, Risk, etc. it's about winning a war by conquering territories.

The other games listed are tactical "battle games," where the objective is to win a particular battle. Terrain, line of site, unit positioning, etc. all matter.

So I'd suggest you need to think about what type of wargame your husband would prefer.

Among the battle games, allow me to add:

Command & Colors Ancients (battles between Rome and Carthage, Athens and Sparta, etc)
Hold the Line (US Revolutionary War battles)

You should be aware that Command & Colors, Memoir 44, and Battelore are all card-driven. This means, you can't move any old unit, but need to have the right cards in your hands to move particular units.

This initially turned me off, but it grew on my. Indeed, Command & Colors Ancients is currently my favorite game.

Hold the Line, and conflict of heroes, are action point driven. Each player has a limited number of action points each turn that are used to activate, move, and a order units to battle. I actually prefer that approach.

Finally, in terms of complexity, from light to moderate complexity, I'd order the games as follows:

Memoir 44
BattleLore
Command and Colors Ancients
Hold the line (esp if one uses the optional advanced rules)
Conflict of Heroes.

One more thing: with the exception of Conflict of heroes, these are all rather light games. That said, memoir and ancients have "overlord " / "epic" versions that combine two game boards, accommodate up to 8 players, and can last 2-3 hours.

 
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Elyse S.
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Thanks for the suggestion of 1775 but it was already recommended to me in another thread and it looked...to easy? gateway I suppose would be a better word.

I suppose I need to decide between card driven and action point based then.

Complexity doesn't bother me. It really comes down to play time and how fun it is.
The maximum amount of time we have to play games is 4 hours. That would be starting right after our toddler goes to bed until midnight.
 
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James C
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Every game I listed could be played w/n 1-2 hours. And that includes set-up and take down. That said, CoH might push into 3. I've studied it (read and retread the rules and reviews) but haven't played it yet.

If you have a full four hours to spare one night, you could do what many people do and have a rematch in which you and your husband switch sides. This is nice b/c in some of the battle scenarios, one side truly has an edge.

I'd suggest you also think about theme: what era appeals to you most?

WW II?
Antiquity?
18th Century?
 
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Dave
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Have you investigated Mythic Battles?

I have BattleLore (Second Edition) and am currently looking at this one, wondering if I need to get it. It looks to offer similar gameplay with a neat dice mechanic, expansions and a somewhat modular board with scenarios to vary gameplay. No cool miniatures (at this point) though.
 
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Elyse S.
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Professor X wrote:
Every game I listed could be played w/n 1-2 hours. And that includes set-up and take down. That said, CoH might push into 3. I've studied it (read and retread the rules and reviews) but haven't played it yet.

If you have a full four hours to spare one night, you could do what many people do and have a rematch in which you and your husband switch sides. This is nice b/c in some of the battle scenarios, one side truly has an edge.

I'd suggest you also think about theme: what era appeals to you most?

WW II?
Antiquity?
18th Century?


Unfortunately while my husband plays games with me, after one game he is done unless it's a quick game of Escape: The Curse of the Temple because it's only 10 min. He would rather go play minecraft or whatever MMO he is currently playing.

I'm not sure any war period actually interests me much. It's partially why something like battlelore might go over better with me since it's fantasy.
I asked my husband and a 10 hour, 30 page rule book with 1000 chits war game appeals to him. That is unrealistic though.
So I'm looking for something in between I suppose.
So far the only game he doesn't like we own is Summoner Wars: Master Set. Which is sad because I really like it.soblue
 
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Elyse S.
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super_d wrote:
Have you investigated Mythic Battles?

I have BattleLore (Second Edition) and am currently looking at this one, wondering if I need to get it. It looks to offer similar gameplay with a neat dice mechanic, expansions and a somewhat modular board with scenarios to vary gameplay. No cool miniatures (at this point) though.


I haven't looked at Mythic Battles. I will though. thanks
 
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Captain Spaulding
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honeybunnie8 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Every game I listed could be played w/n 1-2 hours. And that includes set-up and take down. That said, CoH might push into 3. I've studied it (read and retread the rules and reviews) but haven't played it yet.

If you have a full four hours to spare one night, you could do what many people do and have a rematch in which you and your husband switch sides. This is nice b/c in some of the battle scenarios, one side truly has an edge.

I'd suggest you also think about theme: what era appeals to you most?

WW II?
Antiquity?
18th Century?


Unfortunately while my husband plays games with me, after one game he is done unless it's a quick game of Escape: The Curse of the Temple because it's only 10 min. He would rather go play minecraft or whatever MMO he is currently playing.

I'm not sure any war period actually interests me much. It's partially why something like battlelore might go over better with me since it's fantasy.
I asked my husband and a 10 hour, 30 page rule book with 1000 chits war game appeals to him. That is unrealistic though.
So I'm looking for something in between I suppose.
So far the only game he doesn't like we own is Summoner Wars: Master Set. Which is sad because I really like it.soblue


So either 10 min or 10 hours, no in-between? Man, he's a tough one. Since he's so into minecraft, have you considered a board game that has similar mechanics? There are plenty that have some kind of converting stuff into other stuff and using that stuff to build stuff gameplay. There are also many dungeon crawler type board games, although the massively multiplayer aspect is obviously hard to replicate. But then, I'd take a game of Mage Knight with a spouse over the dull grind of World of Warcraft with a bunch of strangers any day.
 
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Elyse S.
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Mr_Bickman wrote:
honeybunnie8 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Every game I listed could be played w/n 1-2 hours. And that includes set-up and take down. That said, CoH might push into 3. I've studied it (read and retread the rules and reviews) but haven't played it yet.

If you have a full four hours to spare one night, you could do what many people do and have a rematch in which you and your husband switch sides. This is nice b/c in some of the battle scenarios, one side truly has an edge.

I'd suggest you also think about theme: what era appeals to you most?

WW II?
Antiquity?
18th Century?


Unfortunately while my husband plays games with me, after one game he is done unless it's a quick game of Escape: The Curse of the Temple because it's only 10 min. He would rather go play minecraft or whatever MMO he is currently playing.

I'm not sure any war period actually interests me much. It's partially why something like battlelore might go over better with me since it's fantasy.
I asked my husband and a 10 hour, 30 page rule book with 1000 chits war game appeals to him. That is unrealistic though.
So I'm looking for something in between I suppose.
So far the only game he doesn't like we own is Summoner Wars: Master Set. Which is sad because I really like it.soblue


So either 10 min or 10 hours, no in-between? Man, he's a tough one. Since he's so into minecraft, have you considered a board game that has similar mechanics? There are plenty that have some kind of converting stuff into other stuff and using that stuff to build stuff gameplay. There are also many dungeon crawler type board games, although the massively multiplayer aspect is obviously hard to replicate. But then, I'd take a game of Mage Knight with a spouse over the dull grind of World of Warcraft with a bunch of strangers any day.


Yeah. Moderation is not his strong suit.

I have some "building" games like Le Havre, Shipyard, Eclipse. I also own Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition). I think I have those covered.
I just think we need a good war game. Since he doesn't like Summoner Wars: Master Set I thought I would look for something else that more of a proper war game.
 
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honeybunnie8 wrote:

Yeah. Moderation is not his strong suit.

I have some "building" games like Le Havre, Shipyard, Eclipse. I also own Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition). I think I have those covered.
I just think we need a good war game. Since he doesn't like Summoner Wars: Master Set I thought I would look for something else that more of a proper war game.


I see. For me, A Few Acres of Snow is my go-to war game. Much easier setup than those others, super thematic; it's my favorite game of any genre. There is a strategy dubbed "The Halifax Hammer" that people claim breaks the game, but I haven't really found it an issue with the second edition rules, and frankly, had I never read the very specific programmed moves to the trick, I never would have stumbled across it. Even knowing about "The Hammer", I play it A LOT online, and it hits an absolute sweet spot of strategy, thematic integration of game mechanics, and overall depth without needless complexity. I would recommend it 100 times over something like COH, which for my taste focuses too much on fiddly simulation mechanics, that somehow make it feel more gamey to me than A Few Acres, which just drips with theme as you play. Martin Wallace is a genius that way. I've played it probably more than any other game and it truly gets better and better with each play. Even with it's "brokenness", it is the perfect game. For me.
 
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Paul Procyk
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You may want to consider Combat Commander: Europe from GMT games. It is infantry only, vice both armour and infantry in Conflict of Heroes. However it is pretty good introductory war game which is card driven. The rule set is elegant and clean, and game play is dramatic.

In fact, it has narrative much like a somewhat over the top war movie.

Go to the GMT website. You will be able to download a set of the living rules in order to determine complexity on your own.

https://www.gmtgames.com/p-455-combat-commander-europe-2014-...
 
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