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Subject: Bioroid breaking, ICE encounter, Accessing cards and more rss

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David Scheele
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Hi there,

I love love LOVE this game and have been for years on the old version. I'm now trying to get into the new version.

Now I have a few questions and it would be nice if I could get some ideas on this.

1.) On most (if not all) Bioroids it says you can use up clicks to break subroutines on them. But the translation on my cards is not completely clear and even the originals could be read wrong. Can you only use ONE CLICK to destroy ONE SUBROUTINE or, if you have more to spare, could you use all your leftover clicks to destroy as many subroutines as you want as long as you pay a click for it?
Also, lorewise, how do bioroid ice work? I get that they are cyborg beings but ICE is striclty virtual for me.... is the runner literally running through their head?

2.) IIRC back in the day, when the runner started a run he HAD to encounter the first ice. Only if the corp didn't rez it she could log out again before encountering the next ice. I must be blind because I couldn't find that rule in my version. Is this still a rule though? Otherwise the Jinteki ID "Replicating perfection" would lose all its alure

3.) When is a run considered "successful"? For example, if the runner runs on a server with Bernice Mai installed as an upgrade, gets through all the ice and accesses the installed software on the server, does he get a chance to trash Bernice mai before the effect of her trigger? Or will her effect trigger as soon as she accesses cards?
On thet note, a server can have as many upgrades as it wants right? just regions are limited?

4.) Project Beale. Will the agenda marker stay on the card if the runner steals it? as in... if there are 5 marker on the card and the corp didn't score it yet, but the runner steals it next turn. will he get 2 or 3 AP?
 
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Matt Hindmarch
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1) As long as you can pay the clicks, you get to pass as many subroutines as you want.
 
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Craig S.
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2). That rule is still in place and can be found in the section detailing runs.
 
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Edward K.
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1. You can use as many clicks as you have, for instance if you have no breakers and want to pass Eli 1.0 (2 End the Run subs) you may spend 2 clicks (1 for each sub) to completely break Eli. This is breaking, not bypassing or any other weird language, because say if it's Chum then Eli: Chum fires and now Eli will have more strength and will hurt you if you don't break him. Spend 2 clicks, and you have completely broken Eli.

The only Bioroid currently that be "clicked through" is Wotan.

2. I do believe you must encounter the first piece of ICE during the run, there is no "Jack-out" period for the first ICE, but after that you may.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/android-netrun...

Scroll all the way down to page 14. Timing 2.2 of a Run "(cannot jack out if this is the first ice approached this run)"

3. A run is Successful when you pass all ICE and choose to access, at which point you cannot jack out and must access all cards, in any order, that are in the server (so if you know there is an Ambush and another card, you must access both Ambush and other card but you pick the order).

4. Project Beale says "when scored" this is different from "when stolen" so, the additional points will only apply to the corp even if there are a million counters on the card, the runner will only get 2 points.
 
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CD Harris
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DaveS wrote:
Also, lorewise, how do bioroid ice work? I get that they are cyborg beings but ICE is striclty virtual for me.... is the runner literally running through their head?


You are, in essence, using up time to talk your way past them. They're chatty.
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David Scheele
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Yes... but a "run" is only virtual. The runner doesn't enter the corp building and talks/breaks his way past the roids with his programs. He is online, in the stream. So why are bioroids also virtual? are that two seperate thigns? virtual and real roids?
 
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Craig S.
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DaveS wrote:
Yes... but a "run" is only virtual. The runner doesn't enter the corp building and talks/breaks his way past the roids with his programs. He is online, in the stream. So why are bioroids also virtual? are that two seperate thigns? virtual and real roids?


The 'roid is presumably jacked in, as well. Perhaps you are talking in the stream?
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Nate Parkes
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DaveS wrote:
Also, lorewise, how do bioroid ice work? I get that they are cyborg beings but ICE is striclty virtual for me.... is the runner literally running through their head?


It's worth noting that true bioroids aren't exactly cyborgs (they're not part human, part machine, I mean). They're basically androids. Though a major theme of Haas seems to be "upgrading humanity" (aka replacing human parts with robot parts), bioroids--at least, as far as I understand it--are fully machine.

As to your question: The way I interpret it, Bioroid ICE is a virtual cyber-security checkpoint powered by a dedicated machine intelligence (a bioroid), whereas other ICE is a static program. The bioroid is more efficient for its cost, but can be analyzed, predicted, and circumvented with study (clicks).

For example, compare "Wall of Static" with "Eli 1.0." They both cost 3 credits to rez, but aside from the bioroid click-through drawback, Eli is clearly superior; he's stronger, and he has two subroutines.

Wall of Static is like a chain-link fence, and Eli is like a security guard on patrol. For the same cost as building and maintaining a chain-link fence around an entire building, you could instead hire a security guard to patrol the perimeter. And the security guard would be better at stopping intruders he confronts, because he's intelligent.

But an intruder can study the security guard's patterns long enough, he can slip through while the guard is on the other side of the building, or taking a smoke break.

Anyways, that's the way I've always thought about it.

Ask me how I thematically interpret Crypsis' click-for-virus-token ability sometime.
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Eric Rampson
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How do you thematically interpret Crypsis' click-for-virus-token ability?
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Ony Moose
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Crypsis essentially means camouflage. Crypsis needs to spend time to charge up with camouflage to avoid being detected and destroyed after breaking ice subroutines.

Wikipedia wrote:
In ecology, crypsis is the ability of an organism to avoid observation or detection by other organisms. It may be either a predation strategy or an antipredator adaptation, and methods include camouflage, nocturnality, subterranean lifestyle, transparency, and mimicry.


So Crypsis needs to be charged up to avoid detection in some way, if it's caught without any then it's destroyed.

For Bioroids there is a story for Chaos vs Eli, where she talks him into letting her past. Essentially Bioroids are created by scanning a real human, and then creating copies of the brain (perhaps with some modifications). Either to deploy in an android body, or as ICE protecting their server. The Bioroids as ICE get lonely and bored since they are full human minds trapped in cyber space permanently. They are supposed to server their corp masters, but if you can spend the time to talk to them, you might be able to persuade them to let you past.
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Aaron Smith
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DaveS wrote:
Yes... but a "run" is only virtual. The runner doesn't enter the corp building and talks/breaks his way past the roids with his programs. He is online, in the stream. So why are bioroids also virtual? are that two seperate thigns? virtual and real roids?


I've always interpreted Bioroid ICE as being, essentially, Artificial Intelligences. Think Bioroid without the physical shell, existing solely in network space. If you've read any William Gibson novels, I'd equate bioroid ICE to Wintermute from Neuromancer.
 
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Nate Parkes
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Scud-O wrote:
How do you thematically interpret Crypsis' click-for-virus-token ability?


You knuckle-head.

In my opinion, you're actually spending those clicks running a mass-spam malware scheme: Nigerian prince inheritances, male enhancement, instant loan applications, free credit checks... whatever it takes to get the end user to click through on an unsafe link and... voila! A network of infected systems. The number of tokens on Crypsis represent how much you've infected the entire net with his particular brand of malware.

Of course, as soon as you use Crypsis, the malware becomes obvious to the system admins, and they run Norton anti-virus, and then somebody probably gets pulled into a supervisor's office for non-work-related browsing and written up or fired or upgraded into an unholy amalgamation of flesh and machine.
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EXTRA AVOCADO! Sonderegger
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Eldil wrote:
and then somebody probably gets pulled into a supervisor's office for non-work-related browsing and written up or fired or upgraded into an unholy amalgamation of flesh and machine.


Glad I don't work at Jinteki, either:

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Wesley Kinslow
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I just see Crypsis as a true AI - breaker. One that refuses to break subroutines for you unless you talk about his cyber-problems for a few minutes. Such a drama queen.

Eldil wrote:
Scud-O wrote:
How do you thematically interpret Crypsis' click-for-virus-token ability?


You knuckle-head.

In my opinion, you're actually spending those clicks running a mass-spam malware scheme: Nigerian prince inheritances, male enhancement, instant loan applications, free credit checks... whatever it takes to get the end user to click through on an unsafe link and... voila! A network of infected systems. The number of tokens on Crypsis represent how much you've infected the entire net with his particular brand of malware.

Of course, as soon as you use Crypsis, the malware becomes obvious to the system admins, and they run Norton anti-virus, and then somebody probably gets pulled into a supervisor's office for non-work-related browsing and written up or fired or upgraded into an unholy amalgamation of flesh and machine.
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Kevin Jones
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1. The mechanics question has been asked and answered, but lorewise, bioroids are the reproduction of human minds through technological study. They aren't cyborgs, as not all of them have physical bodies. Only a few exceptions, like Floyd (mentioned in the Experiential Data card) do. I'd say more, but that's best left for the General chat board.

2. Mentioned in the run mechanics, as well as the run flowchart. However, cards like Snitch and Recon allow for exceptions.

3. A run is successful when after the runner bypasses all ICE and chooses not to jack out. After that point, the runner must either access the server or, if played, do the other successful thing, like Account Siphon.

4. As mentioned, agenda tokens are not advancement tokens. Thus, Beale can only be worth 2 points to the runner until something allows scored agendas to be taken by the other side, which I hope never happens.
 
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Peter Hopkins
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I must admit I haven't read any of the books, but from my experience of Android, Infiltraion, and Netrunner... The bioroids are human minds mapped digitally, and then added to a robot body. Haas Bioroid are the only ones who seem to be able to do it, though I think lore wise CyberSolutions had an alternative method of doing it as well (before they got taken down...).

I had always figured that they didn't have that many actual minds mapped, and the numbers after the name matched up with the particular robot body (for the physical versions) or some kind of cyberspace body for the ICE. So, two different Floyds might be the same person, but would have different bodies. I guess you could also get an Eli or Ichi in a robot body outside the net too then?
 
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brodee ee
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my theory about bioroids being clickable lorewise is as follows.
The bioroid ice is so prevalent in the world that the solutions to passing them are considered common knowledge in the runner community. because of this they were specifically designed to take a long time to break using commonly available tools. Hence they represent this with using clicks.
 
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Greg
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Just got the game and trying to understand the bioroid thing.

Does the runner still need a Sentry Icebreaker to break a Bioroid Ice with Sentry for example, and then be able to click through?
 
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David O
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Hahma wrote:
Just got the game and trying to understand the bioroid thing.

Does the runner still need a Sentry Icebreaker to break a Bioroid Ice with Sentry for example, and then be able to click through?


Nope. If the card has the, "The Runner can spend :click: to break any subroutine" text, the Runner doesn't even need a breaker to interact with it.
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Greg
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hwangman wrote:
Hahma wrote:
Just got the game and trying to understand the bioroid thing.

Does the runner still need a Sentry Icebreaker to break a Bioroid Ice with Sentry for example, and then be able to click through?


Nope. If the card has the, "The Runner can spend :click: to break any subroutine" text, the Runner doesn't even need a breaker to interact with it.


Thanks David

So basically, the Runner doesn't need to worry about the Ice's strength unless they are using a breaker to interact with it to get through the subroutines. If the Runner isn't using a breaker, they will just have to use clicks to get through the subroutines, or enough clicks to get through some of the subroutines, but suffer the affects of subroutines they skip.

But if the Runner does use a breaker, they have to match or better the Ice's strength, and other rules apply, such as that a breaker with Barrier subtype can't interact with a Sentry bioroid Ice, correct?

Sorry for the noob questions. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the different nuances of the different factions in order to best understand what approach to take when playing them or against them.
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Gregory Pettigrew
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Yup.
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