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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Z-95 is there a reason why we won't see swarms? rss

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Ken
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Looking at the upcoming Z-95.

Why wouldn't you fly swarms like the TIE swarm?
 
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Jeff Dunford
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Ken at Sunrise wrote:
Looking at the upcoming Z-95.

Why wouldn't you fly swarms like the TIE swarm?


Is that a rhetorical question?

To list a assortment of pros and cons: They're heartier (although lower agility) than TIE Fighters. They may or may not have a Howlrunner counterpart. They don't come in core sets, so you'd have to buy 8, which is a bit of a financial deterrent. Perhaps 6 with ordnance will be better than 8 without (similar to 4 armed TIE Bombers vs 6 naked Bombers).
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Josh Derksen
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Cost will be the main factor, I think.

I also strongly suspect 8 TIEs > 8 Z95s. The lower pilot skill combined with Evade and Barrel Roll actions makes a lot of difference, and it's pretty safe to assume the Z-95's dial is worse than a TIE's too.
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Zack Stackurski
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I'm guessing we'll mostly see them in a "complimentary swarm" role. 3 or 4 in formation alongside a Falcon or couple of better fighters could be quite common for people longing for 5 o 6 ship rebel builds.
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Dave Kudzma
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I'm absolutely planning on at least 5, so I'm sure there will be full swarms.

Edit:

Because, you know, what I do has such a huge affect on the meta... whistle
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Michael Ptak
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Lower agility doesn't make up for the tradeoff of a shield. Z-95s will shoot, TIEs will evade, then shoot back and the shots will stick.
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Ken
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Nope not rhetorical,

Thanks for the ideas everyone.
 
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Robert M.
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Norsehound wrote:
Lower agility doesn't make up for the tradeoff of a shield. Z-95s will shoot, TIEs will evade, then shoot back and the shots will stick.

If you take Howlrunner out of the equation, the higher PS and extra shield do balance out the TIE Fighter's extra Agility. With Howlrunner in the equation, you're right--it will take forever, but the TIE swarm will eventually knock off the Z-swarm.

Of course Howlrunner is in the game, which is why I think we'll see Headhunters in a filler role. For the price of an elite pilot with some upgrades you can get three Bandits, which will help bulk out your hit points, add some blockers against anything except Academies and Alphas, and give you a couple of extra late shots (where your chosen target is likely to have lost its defensive tokens and your 2 dice are more likely to connect).

 
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Jeff Dunford
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What about Z-95 swarm vs other popular squads like double Falcons? Z-95's are less likely to suffer 1-shot kills, although it's still possible, both at Range 1 and further due to "Direct Hit". I recently one-shotted an A-wing... Anyway, unlikely a single Falcon will take out a ship per turn like it can against TIE Fighters/Interceptors.
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Robert M.
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iNano78 wrote:
What about Z-95 swarm vs other popular squads like double Falcons? Z-95's are less likely to suffer 1-shot kills, although it's still possible, both at Range 1 and further due to "Direct Hit". I recently one-shotted an A-wing... Anyway, unlikely a single Falcon will take out a ship per turn like it can against TIE Fighters/Interceptors.

Even against double Falcons, my money would be on something like 3x Rookie/3x Bandit to outfight 8x Bandit. But resistance to shots that are distant from the median is definitely one of the perks of the Z-95 as compared to the TIE Fighter, and I suppose time will tell.
 
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Guido Gloor
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I preordered six Z-95, and I'll definitely try them out as a "swarm" with ordnance.

Why not 8? If I want to fly a swarm of 8, I'd rather fly TIE Fighters.
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Allen T
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I would expect the dial and pilot abilities to offset the PS and extra shield.
I hope the dial and pilot abilities offset the PS and shield.
FFG doesn't want EVERYONE to play Rebel, do they...
 
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Zack Stackurski
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monkeykins wrote:

FFG doesn't want EVERYONE to play Rebel, do they...


No. Or they wouldn't be releasing the very cool looking Defenders and Phantoms to give Imperials more viable builds with fewer ships.
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Joe Silva
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I'm definitely planning on owning at least 6 of the buggers. I WILL have a rebel swarm, they will all have concussion missiles and i will feast on imperial tears.

unless that fancy Ewing catches my eye, turns a hit into a crit doesn't he?
 
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John DiMaggio
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armoredgear7 wrote:
The lower pilot skill combined with Evade and Barrel Roll actions makes a lot of difference, and it's pretty safe to assume the Z-95's dial is worse than a TIE's too.


This. I find people give Howlrunner too much credit when it comes to the power of the swarm. Yes, the re-rolls help smooth out the damage curve. But TIEs have an AMAZING dial. 1-turn much? I do, and it rocks. Barrel roll to fit just right in that spot between 2 ships, yep, I do. Or barrel roll right in front of 2-3 stressed rebel ships, yep that rocks. Hell, evade is pretty darn useful too when you have a 1 pt. TIE fighter you're looking to save. I don't really see Z-95's having that same kind of utility.

As others have mentioned, I think they add a few late-round shots for cheap, which Rebels do need. One reason why I think AABBB does so well, you don't "waste" 3-gun shots on hurt ships as much. When something has 1 hp left, ideally you want to attack with a cheap ship(A-wing in AABBB), not a 3-gun 21-29 pt. X-wing or B-wing.

Also, adding a bit of hp to the otherwise somewhat vulnerable X-wing squads would be quite nice, again why 2X/2B does well, adding a bit of the B-wing's defense to that equation helps a ton. Could also say the same for AABBB, there's no easy target, and has very high defense, so you're stuck attacking through a ton of HP, 8 hp, or 4 hp/3agi, stuck between the proverbial rock (8 hp b-wing) or a hard place (3 agi. A-wing).

Looking forward to the Z-95, and as other's have mentioned, I see 3 X-wing/3 Z-95 being a nice rebel swarm to try out in a competitive environment. I tend to quite like how 6-ships fly in formation much more than 7 TIEs, so I'll definitely try it out!
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