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Sid Meier's Civilization: The Board Game» Forums » Play By Forum

Subject: Civilization PBF - Dawn of Civilization 1.0 #120 rss

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Marcel Cwertetschka
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This will be a game of a selfcreated Variant with four players, and the following rules:

The game will utilize the alternative tiebreaker variant and several additional variants which are detailed below.

Orders, notifications and all other correspondence will be done in the thread. Of course you are welcome to send me additional conditional orders via PM. (You can send me (Pre-)Orders per PM also but interference with other orders must be solved nonetheless)
Tabeltalk will be done in the thread! No private messaging!

Play will be simultaneous for the first two turns.

Please plan to check in at least once a day. If you're going away and can't check in for a few days, please let us know ahead of time.

In deference to FFG, I will not be posting culture or greatperson text from the game in the forum, only by pm.

In the interest of saving time, please make good use of mailing me Conditional Orders for SoT & Trade, CM, Movement, Research for the next upcoming phase!


This will be a Dawn of Civilization game.

Rule Clarifications!
1) Iron and Healing abilities : We will follow the rules of the Bible instead of the rule of the last faq ->

83. Your turn in a battle is Ability > Card > Ability.
84. The battle ends after 2 subsequent turns where no player play neither a card neither an ability. This means that, if you are out of cards, you still can use an ability, like Mathematics. So, after the exhaustion of all cards from both players, they keep “playing” until both pass.
85. You can use an ability however you play the card (there is a misunderstanding about the rulebook saying that abilities “must be played before or after attacking an enemy front”).

2) Governements :
You can only change of Gov once per turn, except if you get a tech that unlocks a new kind of gov via a shared knowledge (etc) played upon you and after you already took your SoT. This means you can "double-dip" in some particular situations. For example, I'm in feudalism and just researched Democracy, I can take my free ressource and then change to democracy and get +2 trades.

3) You can replace starred building and wonders by building another one on the same square or elsewhere.
 
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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Rulechanges


Simplyfied Civsheets:



New Socials


New Wonders




All level 0 techcards:



All level 1 techcards:



All level 2 techcards:



All level 3 techcards:



All level 4 techcards:



Great Persons



Culture Cards level 0
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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first come first serve, but i would like to see some new faces
 
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Ca$h
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Will you invite or is it open?

If the latter, then I am in.
Will this be using the FOG or normal DOC?
 
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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normal map, open to join
 
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Ca$h
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Shouldn't there be level 2 techs that also increase figure limit?
 
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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cash1981 wrote:
Shouldn't there be level 2 techs that also increase figure limit?

level 0 techs are basics, level 1 techs are more broad or advanced basics, level 2 upwards are highly specialized and powerful. but it is something to be considered in the future on a few ones.
 
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Asger Kreiner-Møller
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I would like to join in.
 
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Ira Fay
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Balance Suggestions:

1) Zulu's seem a little weak to me. Has anyone ever picked them? Instead of level 0 CC which is maybe worthless, give them 2 culture, or maybe more.

2) I love the addition of 1 loot to pay 3 trade and learn a level 0 CC! Excellent. But why not let it be learned without paying 3 trade?

3) I think Free Market is really powerful because investment coins are untouchable by other game effects. I would consider changing it to be: Whenever you invest a coin, put a coin on your civilization sheet.

That way, if you are winning, your opponents can still fight against you, and the order matters a bit (instead of getting Free Market at the end to win instantly after investing the whole game). I think the text above would still be a very powerful effect, since one of the main drawbacks of an econ victory is that you can't invest.

I'd still prefer to see a social policy that helps tech victory get level 0 techs, but that's an old argument.

4) I don't think anyone has ever taken Fertilizer in any game of DoC. It's too weak. I suggest adding:
+1 culture hand size
Unlocks Urban Development

And allowing a Megalopolis to be an L shape - you can put your metropolis tile next to your normal capital tile in any way you want.


Good luck with this game - I'll pass for now!
 
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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1) Zulu's strengths are in different arena's than that small bonus

3) investments must be unlocked in DoC but you have a point, it could be limited to 4 investments as coins

4) Fertilizer also upgrades a second city to a higher one, i think it is situnational but very powerful
 
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I'm in of course !!!
 
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1) Zulu are good in DOc. Taking village without battle can be a huge advantage if you have some village around you.

3) I don't thint you will see more than 4 or 5 investment in a DoC game, so it's quite balanced.

4) Fertilizer is good because growing a second City give a +8 CB, so it's a good defensive tech. Noone took it for the moment, but I was close to take it in game #96 but was forced to try something else and so was forced to take steam power.

 
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Ira Fay
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Itchi wrote:

3) I don't thint you will see more than 4 or 5 investment in a DoC game, so it's quite balanced.

Interesting. I'm surprised that you think a social policy that instantly gives 4-5 coins late game is balanced. I disagree.

The general design of social policies is that they only give a benefit if you do the right thing when they are active. This one lets you invest coins all along, and then take it at the very end and get full benefit, and all the invested coins are totally safe from attack.

Itchi wrote:

4) Fertilizer is good because growing a second City give a +8 CB, so it's a good defensive tech. Noone took it for the moment, but I was close to take it in game #96 but was forced to try something else and so was forced to take steam power.

I agree that it's a decent defensive tech, but that's not enough for a level 3 tech. Also, if no one actually takes it, then that's a good indication that it's too weak.

If everyone takes it, then that's a good indication it's too strong. For example, I have no idea why Irrigation has +1 culture hand size. Everyone already takes that tech all the time, so it shouldn't be more powerful. Give the +1 culture hand size to Construction.
 
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ira212 wrote:
Itchi wrote:

3) I don't thint you will see more than 4 or 5 investment in a DoC game, so it's quite balanced.

Interesting. I'm surprised that you think a social policy that instantly gives 4-5 coins late game is balanced. I disagree.

The general design of social policies is that they only give a benefit if you do the right thing when they are active. This one lets you invest coins all along, and then take it at the very end and get full benefit, and all the invested coins are totally safe from attack.

Itchi wrote:

4) Fertilizer is good because growing a second City give a +8 CB, so it's a good defensive tech. Noone took it for the moment, but I was close to take it in game #96 but was forced to try something else and so was forced to take steam power.

I agree that it's a decent defensive tech, but that's not enough for a level 3 tech. Also, if no one actually takes it, then that's a good indication that it's too weak.

If everyone takes it, then that's a good indication it's too strong. For example, I have no idea why Irrigation has +1 culture hand size. Everyone already takes that tech all the time, so it shouldn't be more powerful. Give the +1 culture hand size to Construction.


We will test anyway.
About free Market indeed it can be quite strong. Personaly I'm more confortable with Free Tought capped at research only, but maybe Free Market is more interesting.
It's hard to find an indication about Fertilizer, because the first lvl 3 tech researched is always a tech that unlocks lvl 3 units, and games often ends a little bit after. In some situation Fertilizer can be a great choice.
About the +1 CHS on Irrigation, I was against at the start, but finally I think it's ok like that as everyone research Irrigation and so you reach at least a 0/2 CHS, which is quite normal at this stage of the game. I don't think people will research construction because of the +1 CHS on it and people will still research Irrigation everytime whatever if there is a +1 CHS on it or not.
 
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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guys, guys I am very pleased to see discussion and thoughts about the variant but i think it would be cool to discuss that actually in the variant thread... I made these design desicions on certain bases and I think I can evaluate certain points on my own aswell, there is always some points to critize and subject of opinions but in the end balance is a myth and one can only try to come close to it. Sure some desicions seem odd, but there are also a bit experimental. I have some ideas to solve the mayor issue about free market right now but i would like to ponder them and test first if it is really too strong. Investements are quite scarse in DoC until now, and free market should promote them a bit.

Probably the following idea might be really more balanced and interesting:

Free Market: whenever you invest, place a coin marker on this social policy (max 4). This coin markers cannot be invested.
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Frank ---
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If there is a spot left I'd like to play a game from the beginning
 
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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cash1981
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Itchi
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is our party apparently.

I will setup tomorrow and fix a typo on globalization + change free market to the version abothe. Spotted any last outstanding grave balance issues? Then speak up please or be silenced till the game is over
 
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Steven Radtke
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MAN! I always miss the starts!
cry
 
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stever777 wrote:
MAN! I always miss the starts!
cry


Don't worry I will start a game nexy week ^^.
 
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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stever777 wrote:
MAN! I always miss the starts!
cry

if itchi would opt out, we would have a fairly team of new players roughtly on the same level - itchi you got the most games under your belt in doc - i think it would be a bit unfair to let you participate all the time ;P - especially for your RL game buddies whistle

dont worry itchi, once 101 is finished (most likely soon) i will do an moderation for the advanced players okay?
 
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Morthai wrote:
stever777 wrote:
MAN! I always miss the starts!
cry

if itchi would opt out, we would have a fairly team of new players roughtly on the same level - itchi you got the most games under your belt in doc - i think it would be a bit unfair to let you participate all the time ;P - especially for your RL game buddies whistle

dont worry itchi, once 101 is finished (most likely soon) i will do an moderation for the advanced players okay?


No problem ^^.
I cannot go against the idea of having more and more Doc players ^^
Btw in the game I will start I will probably "force" some Civ draw because they weren't drawed yet (like Russia, etc.), to see if some are overpowered or overweakened, even if I think they are quite well balanced.
 
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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if anyone has any color preferences please tell me
 
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Steven Radtke
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I'll take England & Red
 
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RoyalRook
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Is Metalworking changed into Iron Working or it's a typo? What icons does a Great Statesman own?

Deng Xiaoping, who shaped modern China of today after being prosecuted repeatedly by Mao of all people needs to be considered as a Great Statesman.
 
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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metalworking ia changed on purpose to ironworking to fit in bronzeworking

great statemen: SPL, Trade, Production

 
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