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Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: Have the rules been posted yet? rss

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Steve Kozlowski
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Just wondering if the rules for this game can be found anywhere yet. I'd really like to see SOMETHING before the pledge manager comes out. If the game has solid rules I might commit more money (maybe all the way up to a minecart), but without seeing the rules, there's no way.

Have they been posted anywhere?

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No, they haven't.

I know one of the fan sites has collected info from what FFP have said on how the game works, I just forgot the site name.

Jorune
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Dan Buman
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This may be the site that Jorune is refering to. It has some good stuff on it!http://brimstonecowboy.com/forums/
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Matt Price
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They're going to be giving a demo early next month in Seattle.

We've asked if anyone goes, to please post as much as they're able about the game, and to ask the SoB team to please post rules too.

Hopefully we'll hear more soon(ish)
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Steve Kozlowski
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mattprice wrote:
They're going to be giving a demo early next month in Seattle.

We've asked if anyone goes, to please post as much as they're able about the game, and to ask the SoB team to please post rules too.

Hopefully we'll hear more soon(ish)


Well if they're able to run a demo in less than a month, they should have a pretty good handle on the final rules at this point so I'm not sure why they're not revealing them, or at least some rules. I find it a bit concerning that they have posted next to nothing about how the game actually plays.
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Koz1120 wrote:
mattprice wrote:
They're going to be giving a demo early next month in Seattle.

We've asked if anyone goes, to please post as much as they're able about the game, and to ask the SoB team to please post rules too.

Hopefully we'll hear more soon(ish)


Well if they're able to run a demo in less than a month, they should have a pretty good handle on the final rules at this point so I'm not sure why they're not revealing them, or at least some rules. I find it a bit concerning that they have posted next to nothing about how the game actually plays.


No, they actually posted a lot. Unfortunately, they did it in the comments section of the Kickstarter which is very difficult to go through. Hopefully this is one of those noob lessons learned type of thing, and that in the future they will do it in the updates portion.

I think they did it this way because they were very active at certain times of the day, answering questions live in the comments section.

Jorune
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Dan Buman
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At the bottom of the kickstarter page there is nice size section describing how the game works. It is worth a look if you have not seen it.
 
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Odie Bracy
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There's a ton of info collected here:

http://www.thezombiegame.com/forums/Forum-Shadows-of-Brimsto...
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Lem Tohver
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FFP is at the GAMA Trade show this week in Las Vegas. I hope that someone gets some video about the game and gameplay there and posts it here on BGG.
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Steve Kozlowski
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litebrite wrote:
FFP is at the GAMA Trade show this week in Las Vegas. I hope that someone gets some video about the game and gameplay there and posts it here on BGG.


I hope somebody gets something. I'm actually concerned about nothing concrete is being shown. If this game is supposed to be out in August, surely they have at least a beta version of the rulebook they could release.
 
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Julien Le Jeune
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Totally forgot about this. It was posted on the updates IIRC? Feels like a long time ago. I'm not too impressed on the communication post-KS, I must say.
 
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Steve Kozlowski
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Shoogoo wrote:
Totally forgot about this. It was posted on the updates IIRC? Feels like a long time ago. I'm not too impressed on the communication post-KS, I must say.


I kind of agree. They've shown us a few new scuplts but I haven't seen anything to make me think this game will come out on time...or even how much fun it will be when it does.
 
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Martin Gallo
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Koz1120 wrote:
Shoogoo wrote:
Totally forgot about this. It was posted on the updates IIRC? Feels like a long time ago. I'm not too impressed on the communication post-KS, I must say.


I kind of agree. They've shown us a few new scuplts but I haven't seen anything to make me think this game will come out on time...or even how much fun it will be when it does.
I am hopeful that it will be as fun (or more) as it seemed it would be when I pledged. I have no expectations that it will be shipping in August, because that is just not how KS campaigns with extras and bonuses and add-ons seem to work out.
 
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Ken H.
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martimer wrote:
I have no expectations that it will be shipping in August, because that is just not how KS campaigns with actress and bonuses and add-ons seem to work out.


actress...?

I have no previous KS experience to draw from. But the way I see it, if a company asks me for over $400 and says the game will ship in August, then it ships in August. They've staked their name and brand on it, and I'm sure they're taking it seriously.

To me, the only flexibility is how much content will ship in August. I understand it won't be everything, but I'm hoping it will be more than just the core sets.
 
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Martin Gallo
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Rubric wrote:
martimer wrote:
I have no expectations that it will be shipping in August, because that is just not how KS campaigns with actress and bonuses and add-ons seem to work out.


actress...?

I have no previous KS experience to draw from. But the way I see it, if a company asks me for over $400 and says the game will ship in August, then it ships in August. They've staked their name and brand on it, and I'm sure they're taking it seriously.

To me, the only flexibility is how much content will ship in August. I understand it won't be everything, but I'm hoping it will be more than just the core sets.
Should have been "extras" - now correctly corrected.

It is possible that this particular KS campaign will be the exception and ship on time. Very few do, and those that do tend to be smaller games (a single deck of cards or the like). Oftentimes the keels of expectations get dashed on the jagged reefs of reality. I try to stick with realistic expectations, born of experience and data rather than my whims of desire.

I hope I am wrong about this one...
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Ken H.
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martimer wrote:
Should have been "extras"


laugh Ah, okay. I couldn't figure that one out at all. At first, I thought you were referring to the fact that other FFP games use photographic artwork, presumably involving "actresses".

Quote:
It is possible that this particular KS campaign will be the exception and ship on time. Very few do, and those that do tend to be smaller games (a single deck of cards or the like). Oftentimes the keels of expectations get dashed on the jagged reefs of reality. I try to stick with realistic expectations, born of experience and data rather than my whims of desire.

I hope I am wrong about this one...


Well, I hope you are too. My own experience and data with respect to FFP is that they place very high priority on meeting customer expectations. And while they haven't done a Kickstarter before, I would think the data about this particular company and their emphasis on customer service is more relevant than data about other companies. I know this is all speculation, regardless.

Have you seen previous KS projects that split up the shipment? Since their goal is apparently to get some of it out by August, it would seem to be an easier target. I wonder if this is a common practice, and if there is history of other companies meeting or missing their goals with this method.

Also, have there been many KS projects by established companies? FFP are not rookies. Despite some newb errors at the beginning of the project (so I've heard -- not noticeable to me though), they have at least seven or eight years of successful publishing experience in the traditional sector, with games significantly more complex than a "single deck of cards". To me, it seems unlikely that an established company with stable production channels and a solid reputation is going to just randomly shout out dates and then ignore them.
 
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Tristan Hall
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Rubric wrote:
martimer wrote:
Should have been "extras"


laugh Ah, okay. I couldn't figure that one out at all. At first, I thought you were referring to the fact that other FFP games use photographic artwork, presumably involving "actresses".

Quote:
It is possible that this particular KS campaign will be the exception and ship on time. Very few do, and those that do tend to be smaller games (a single deck of cards or the like). Oftentimes the keels of expectations get dashed on the jagged reefs of reality. I try to stick with realistic expectations, born of experience and data rather than my whims of desire.

I hope I am wrong about this one...


Well, I hope you are too. My own experience and data with respect to FFP is that they place very high priority on meeting customer expectations. And while they haven't done a Kickstarter before, I would think the data about this particular company and their emphasis on customer service is more relevant than data about other companies. I know this is all speculation, regardless.

Have you seen previous KS projects that split up the shipment? Since their goal is apparently to get some of it out by August, it would seem to be an easier target. I wonder if this is a common practice, and if there is history of other companies meeting or missing their goals with this method.

Also, have there been many KS projects by established companies? FFP are not rookies. Despite some newb errors at the beginning of the project (so I've heard -- not noticeable to me though), they have at least seven or eight years of successful publishing experience in the traditional sector, with games significantly more complex than a "single deck of cards". To me, it seems unlikely that an established company with stable production channels and a solid reputation is going to just randomly shout out dates and then ignore them.



You didn't notice them ratchet up the mine cart price six times? It was by $25 dollar increments too, so early birds were paying $150 dollars less than those who pledged later. It was piss taking of the highest order.

That said, FFP have produced some great games, and there was still good value in the outlaw pledge level.

Maybe they'll run core set copies out to US backers first, like the myth chaps did, but given the sheer amount of stuff involved I get the feeling us international backers won't see it until 2015.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Yeah, but this is their first Kickstarter campaign, and from what I've seen of other companies, Kickstarter campaigns are different beasts than just producing a boardgame...

I personally don't think we're going to get our games in August. I'm okay with that, I'd rather have a good game than a semi-good game with say a crappy rulebook.

-shnar
 
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Ken H.
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ninjadorg wrote:
You didn't notice them ratchet up the mine cart price six times?


Ratchet up? It was pretty clear that they ratched the prices DOWN to a level where they were actually losing money on the early backers. Seems like a good strategy to build interest in the project.

It backfired on them, but I think the problem has more to do with people getting caught up in the lynch mob mentality than it does with FFP making some kind of error. If people complain, does that automatically mean it was a mistake? Or maybe it's just a case of a vocal minority smelling blood and realizing they might get something free out of it.

If they made a mistake, I think it was in underestimating how popular the product would be. I imagine FFP (and other companies who were watching) won't offer such a good deal to early backers next time. Just start the base level at a higher dollar amount to avoid temper tantrums.

Quote:
early birds were paying $150 dollars less than those who pledged later.


And also getting less, since they don't get the $75 credit. Thanks to the complainers, I guess. Personally, I think FFP shouldn't have caved, but then I don't have their customer service sensibility.

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Couple things:

FFP have already stated that there would be AT LEAST 2, if not 3 shipments for everything.

They have said the 1st shipment would be the 2 core box sets for August.

That said, they do have a slight history of delivering their projects later than expected. I know, for example, that people who had preordered the Conquest of Planet Earth Apocalypse expansion, received one of their web exclusive expansions for free because they were a few months late delivering the project.

Queens Games also has a lot of experience and have been around longer than FFP. Guess what? They botched their Dark, Darker, Darkest KS pretty big. There are people who still haven't received the game that was sent out to backers in October.

From when the presses start rolling at the factory through shipment and delivery, it is about a 3 month timeframe. For FFP to meet August, they would have to announce that they have begun producing the game in May. That's 2 months from now.

That's not a lot of time.

They also haven't released their A Touch of Evil Deck building game. They took preorders at Gen Con with a February release date. They missed it. And that's a game that's just a few decks of cards. Their response is in this thread:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1133241/any-word-on-preorder...

I'm in at the minecart level and don't expect to see the core game until late this year, early next. Most KS projects have optimistic release dates, makes people feel better about giving their money know for nothing in return.

Jorune


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The fact of the matter is that experienced and professional game companies miss deadlines all the time. There are simply too many ways for things to go unexpectedly wrong and then have to be straightened out. The difference, of course, is that most of the time (outside kickstarter and early pre-order systems) customers simply don't know the game exists, or if they do, don't get any kind of specific delivery date, until it's actually ready (or almost ready), and so people don't notice that it was delayed.

That's simply one of the hazards of kickstarter: exposing your (often inexperienced) customers to the reality that development can be a bumpy road, regardless of how good you are.
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Ken H.
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Good information, thank you.

On this point:

Jorune wrote:
They have said the 1st shipment would be the 2 core box sets for August.


...do we know if the core sets will include any stretch goals in the box? It seems strange to me that the core sets have map tiles for Targa and Jargono, but no monsters.


Quote:
They took preorders at Gen Con with a February release date. They missed it. And that's a game that's just a few decks of cards.


I haven't been following that one, but this is disappointing.
 
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Rubric wrote:
Good information, thank you.

On this point:

Jorune wrote:
They have said the 1st shipment would be the 2 core box sets for August.


...do we know if the core sets will include any stretch goals in the box? It seems strange to me that the core sets have map tiles for Targa and Jargono, but no monsters.


Quote:
They took preorders at Gen Con with a February release date. They missed it. And that's a game that's just a few decks of cards.


I haven't been following that one, but this is disappointing.


The core sets will be just that, core sets and no stretch goals. They may have some stretch goals ready to go at the same time, but they seemed to suggest priority was getting the core sets ready to go so it would be their main attraction at Gen Con.

Jorune
 
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enie kamozi
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https://twitter.com/thedicetower/status/446414327642202112/p...
First pic of gameplay ?
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Ray Stantz
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enie wrote:


That looks so good.
I can't wait to play it.
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