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I'm unclear on what Paizo's intentions are. Will they keep supporting each Base Set or are the going to stop the after the sixth expansion for each? I had hoped they would continue with RotR, with the announcement of S&S it seems like they're just trying to introduce new ways to make more money. To me it's very disappointing to spend so much time on a set to have it all the sudden end.
 
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What do you mean a "sudden end"? It follows the D&D / Pathfinder adventure series, which I assume has a very clear ending.

They could continue past that with new material I suppose, but it is probably more interesting for them to spend their time visiting more of their adventure paths.
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Rise of the Runelords ends with the 6th Adventure Deck. Then a new adventure path starts with Skulls and Shackles. Each adventure path will have its own base set, and 6 adventure decks.

They are moving to monthly releases with Skulls and Shackles, so the third, as yet unannounced adventure path will come out in February.

The different adventure paths are inter compatible if you want to mix and match, but there are no Paizo published scenarios or adventures that utilize the mixing of different adventure paths.

Here is some info:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qpt3?More-adventure-sets-after-...
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I think it's quite nice to get closure. Then you can choose to start again with new heroes in the next set if you like. That said I'm sure they'll introduce epic level expansions further down the line.
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MarkEA wrote:
I had hoped they would continue with RotR, with the announcement of S&S it seems like they're just trying to introduce new ways to make more money.


When will companies stop trying to do this!? shake
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I don't think of Skull & Shackles as being a cash grab as much as Paizo just expanding the card game to show more of their universe.

That being said, I desperately want them to produce adventure paths 7-12 (and beyond!) for the Rise of the Runelords characters. As you play a campaign like this you just become attached to your characters and being able to continue their story would just be awesome.

edit: typo
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ninjadorg wrote:
That said I'm sure they'll introduce epic level expansions further down the line.


I surely hope you're right.

 
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jbiggs78 wrote:
I don't think of Skull & Shackles as being a cash grab as much as Paizo just expanding the card game to show more of their universe.

That being said, I desperately want them to produce adventure paths 7-12 (and beyond!) for the Rise of the Runelords characters. As you play a campaign like this you just become attached to your characters and being able to continue their story would just be awesome.

edit: typo


Yes you're right about it not being a cash grab, I think my remark was badly worded. I'm happy to see Paizo supporting the system with new Base Sets, I'm sure many will be excited to see their favorites introduced. I just find it disappointing to stop a series when so many have vested so much time into their characters, you become a part of them, or vice versa.

Also with the new series being introduced it won't mean everyone will want to start the new series, many of us are probably very happy playing the one we're using. Of course this doesn't mean that they won't introduce something I'm not interested in, it's just that I don't want to pick up and start something again with the introduction of new series.
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I totally understand what you're saying about the investment into the characters. So many times I play a game or watch a movie or whatever and realize that I can't remember anybody's names. If that's the case immediately after its over, then how much do I really care?

In this case I've spent the better part of the last month catching up to everybody using a three person party of Valeros, Lini and Seelah. I'm hooked, attached... however you want to look at it. I know beyond anything I would lose a scenario before I ever pushed my luck too much and see one of them die.

So yeah, I want to continue the story and watch them make it to even further heights.
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Imagine the backlash if the next set was just more cards for the base game instead of a new set of quests.

"GG paizo. Great, new stuff for the scenarios that are already finished! I wish they would use some of the other modules (like Skulls and Shackles, pirates ftw) instead of rehashing what they already have."

I am quite looking forward to new characters, new abilities, and a new setting.
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I have to admit that I don't quite understand this desire that many seem to have to make their characters go forever and ever. At some point, the characters will eventually have 50 cards in their decks, every skill feat will be checked off, and characters will have new epic-level Powers feats akin to "Wish" that say "Bury your deck. You immediately win the scenario." Or something equally "über."

I tend to doubt that, once everyone sees the new characters, scenarios, boons / banes, and other features present in the new adventure path, this will be quite as significant of an issue or concern.
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therealtheshader wrote:
Imagine the backlash if the next set was just more cards for the base game instead of a new set of quests.

"GG paizo. Great, new stuff for the scenarios that are already finished! I wish they would use some of the other modules (like Skulls and Shackles, pirates ftw) instead of rehashing what they already have."

I am quite looking forward to new characters, new abilities, and a new setting.


I get that sentiment too. I think starting with a new base set and theme is a pretty good call at this stage. Should also give them some freedom to try to do some new things and introduce some new mechanics.

I would be very dissapointed if they didn't revisit the characters we've grown through Rise of the Runelords at some point though.

By doing a new base set that you could use existing characters from RotR and Skulls and Shackles you could open more design space because you could assume that players have played the game and start from a more advanced level, while making the game more difficult/challenging/complex...
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Calthaer wrote:
I have to admit that I don't quite understand this desire that many seem to have to make their characters go forever and ever. At some point, the characters will eventually have 50 cards in their decks, every skill feat will be checked off, and characters will have new epic-level Powers feats akin to "Wish" that say "Bury your deck. You immediately win the scenario." Or something equally "über."

I tend to doubt that, once everyone sees the new characters, scenarios, boons / banes, and other features present in the new adventure path, this will be quite as significant of an issue or concern.


I agree with you on this one, I personally like to try out lots of different characters both in PACG and in the Pathfinder RPG, so I don't mind having a new adventure path include new characters.

That being said, I'd be all about single-deck expansion modules that go into "deck 7-9"-ish territory. There are a bunch of high-level adventure modules that they could be based off of. (The Moonscar! Please!!)
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Calthaer wrote:
I have to admit that I don't quite understand this desire that many seem to have to make their characters go forever and ever. At some point, the characters will eventually have 50 cards in their decks, every skill feat will be checked off, and characters will have new epic-level Powers feats akin to "Wish" that say "Bury your deck. You immediately win the scenario." Or something equally "über."

I tend to doubt that, once everyone sees the new characters, scenarios, boons / banes, and other features present in the new adventure path, this will be quite as significant of an issue or concern.


Well... not quite that far. And I do realize that at some point characters have served their purpose and they are what they are. I woulen't want to get to a point where everything was checked off, for instance, but a epic level set where the average level of the monsters, barriers, villains and boons was intended for adventurers that had been through the initial saga of RotR or S&S? Sign me up. I wouldn't want it to be so our characters could be some level of ridiculous. It would be to put our veterans through some challenges that eclipse that which they've already done.
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I've been thinking for a few scenarios now that it's already obvious that characters are getting too powerful for the card format. The actual die roll for each Skill is increasingly trivial, while the additions are all-important. That can only get worse as characters improve more (although adding more dice helps), and leads to less and less need for choice - many encounters now have become auto-successes for some characters, and auto-fails for others as the system tries to set a level to suit all character builds.

A reboot back to basic characters will be nice, after a while.

Of course, I play Lini, who, I'm told, seems to be reappearing in Skulls & Shackles...
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You are correct that she is reappearing, but she's significantly different. :-D
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Personally, I'm glad Paizo will be ending RotR after adventure 6. This will leave us fans free to create our own follow-up adventures without any worry about clashing with future published material!
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Question though... In the rpg side, What is the total ownership cost for starting a new advenure path from basic characters? When all is said and done, rotrl card game is going to cost me around 175 bucks and the box is relatively large compared to the amound of space i keep dedicated to gaming. I think paizo sells pdfs of the adventures for 10.00 each, for a total cost of 60 bucks plus cost of whatever material is not in the adventure books. If i get a new rpg adventuer path, i do not need to buy an entierly new pathfinder beginners box, yet that seems to be required for s&s.

If they continue to release new adventure paths that require new base sets every 6 months, well, i have to be choosy about which ones to do. If they make a high level path that would work with the current base set, then that is much less of a barrier for me to buy in.

I am curious about what s&s will do differently, but right now, the thought of sinking another 175 bucks is vastly unappealing.
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cartmanbeck wrote:
You are correct that she is reappearing, but she's significantly different. :-D
I believe she's short with green hair. The rest is optional.
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slaybalj wrote:
Question though... In the rpg side, What is the total ownership cost for starting a new advenure path from basic characters? When all is said and done, rotrl card game is going to cost me around 175 bucks and the box is relatively large compared to the amound of space i keep dedicated to gaming. I think paizo sells pdfs of the adventures for 10.00 each, for a total cost of 60 bucks plus cost of whatever material is not in the adventure books. If i get a new rpg adventuer path, i do not need to buy an entierly new pathfinder beginners box, yet that seems to be required for s&s.

If they continue to release new adventure paths that require new base sets every 6 months, well, i have to be choosy about which ones to do. If they make a high level path that would work with the current base set, then that is much less of a barrier for me to buy in.

I am curious about what s&s will do differently, but right now, the thought of sinking another 175 bucks is vastly unappealing.


You've brought up some very good points. Just looking at the retail price of a base set, $60, and 5 expansions at $20 each, that's $160 for a new series. This of course doesn't included tax or shipping or possibly a character add on pack or character mats. Cool Stuff Inc. is selling the base set at roughly $40 and expansions for $13.50, this still comes to $107.50. Paizo is also going to start introducing the expansions at a rate of one per month.

To me this seems like a lot of money for a series which will essentially be the same thing in each set. Now having said that there are those that might bring up games such as Magic or Android Net Runner and the continually added cost when each new set is introduced and I have to admit that many do indeed buy into it all whatever the cost, I'm not one of them. I have bought my fair share of Star Wars X-Wing minis.



 
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I think the new adventure path model had some big advantages by being essentially stand alone games.

For new players, the "start up" cost is kept in check, since you can start with any adventure path and not need to buy all the previous releases to have a complete game. I looked at buying the Lord of the Rings card game recently. But the price of the base set and all the expansions up to current was daunting. And some of them seemed out of print. I didn't want an incomplete game.

For continuing players, if you can't afford or don't like a certain adventure path, you can just choose to skip the whole adventure path and start back with the next one. And by doing so nothing you own will be incomplete.

I much prefer that kind of flexibility. Yeah, I will miss the characters I have played, but I can always dig them out and replay old adventures, or transport deck 3 versions from one adventure path to the another, our enjoy playing the different version of them (heck, I enjoyed playing two versions of them in RotR so I could experience both roles) or just try something new. There are so many options with this model for me to choose from.
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There are always going to be the super fans who will buy anything once hooked and those who will stop buying for a variety of reasons (price, theme, boredom, something else is shiny).

While I really enjoy RoR and know I will get S&S (for the obvious reason maties!), I can understand people hesitating how the PACG model will hold out over the long haul. Price is really subjective -- I don't think the OLGS total price for an entire Adventure Path is unreasonable but I am thinking twice now about continuing my Paizo subscription, which will be around the $175 price or more with shipping, especially if there will be 2 Adventure paths a year I may possibly buy now -- an extra $70 just for promos is a bit much for me.

It really seems that RoR sold extremely well as it appealed to many different types of gamers but not sure that satisfied everyone's expectations at first -- look at all the threads on rule confusions, which mostly were over people bringing a set of expectations from the games they are used to playing, or people confused by the dice.

Now that the game is known and I think we all expect S&S to be pretty close in game play (but so much cooler because of pirates), I kind of wonder if they will see a steep dropoff of certain type of gamers. I can see the active (non-solo) RPGers and CCGers moving on as I am doubtful the game delivered the total experience they wanted. I can see RPGers being more acceptive of a "campaign" ending but CCGers seem to want an endless supply of additional packs as well as very technical rules.

I can speak for myself as frustrated ex-RPGer (who just doesn't have the time anymore), thematic boardgamer (mostly solo), and occasional Eurogamer (as this is all my gamer friends play). I would rather play RPGs but in my adult life there is no time. I try to satisfy that urge with the usual cast of solo thematic games (AH, EH, MK, DOTR, ATOE, LOTR LCG, RB, D&D adventure box, M&M) and while most of them deliver a fun RPG lite experience they really don't deliver a campaign experience (except Mice & Mystics or a multi-day marathon of all in AH).

That is the one thing that PACG does well is provide a campaign over a number of months, which is something I haven't seen in other games, and is probably the hook that will keep me buying. Still I wished it leaned more thematic boardgame/RPG as it still feels too card gamey to me. I would like to see more bling in the game, such as minis and maybe a board, instead of card mats. I know it is hard for any game to provide that RPG experience so I tend to enjoy games that can at least provide some of those aspects.


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The real awesomeness will come when there are four or five base sets and Paizo does an entire six-month run of content where the characters, henchmen, villains, loot, and locations are new, but all the other cards are taken from the other base sets - an "Adventure Deck 3" comprised of 25% Runelords, 15% S&S, 30% Base Set 3, 20% Base Set 4, 10% Base Set 5, etc.

Or something similar to this - something that encourages people to mix & match the content, and breathes new life into it. If not Paizo, then it'll be a fan-made "adventure path."
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Wulf Corbett wrote:
cartmanbeck wrote:
You are correct that she is reappearing, but she's significantly different. :-D
I believe she's short with green hair. The rest is optional.


There used to be an old video game called Metroid. If you knew the pass code you could get a female character with green hair. She could kick some serious...ah, bad guys, yeah that's it.
 
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MarkEA wrote:
There used to be an old video game called Metroid. If you knew the pass code you could get a female character with green hair. She could kick some serious...ah, bad guys, yeah that's it.


Samus had green hair, and the passcode that allowed her to run around without her power suit revealed that...but she wasn't short.
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