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Subject: Different mythos deck construction rss

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David Alfredsson
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So I've been thinking...
The mythos deck is set up in 3 phases with different amounts of blues, greens and yellows depending on what AO you're facing.
Beyond that you have 3 difficulty levels to the cards and the rule book basically give 3 official combinations for playing sith in the game, easy, normal and hard.

Right, I've been thinking...
How many ways can you set up the mythos deck in ways that makes sense?

Here's what I've come up with so far.

1) Normal: mix all mythos difficulties together
2) Easy: mix easy & normal mythos
3) Medium: remove all hard and easy mythos
4) Hard: mix hard & normal mythos
5) Progressive: make 9 piles of the 3 colors and difficulties.
Reduce medium difficulty to 7 yellows, 6 green & 4 blues. Mix the remainder into easy and hard until all 3 piles of a color are equal size.
Now take the first decksection from the easy piles, the second from the medium ones and third from the hard ones.

6) Ultra proggressive: sort mythos into 9 piles as above, shuffle, but do not equalize deck-sizes.
7) Polarized: do not include medium difficulty
8) petting-zoo mythos: use only easy mythos cards
9) devour-me-now: use only hard mythos cards

I don't think there's enough hard and easy mythos card to pull off 8 or 9 until we get some more of those from expansions so they're out.
3 just sounds boring but I'll probably try it at least once.
Lastly 5 sounds really interesting and I'm definetly going to try that one once I get a few games under my belt.
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Marlene Thornstrom
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The progressive modes are the most interesting to me, in terms of theme and mechanics. Everything starts out manageable, you're building up your investigator's skills and assets, then things get worse (just like in a movie!) but you're better prepared to handle it...

I also like that this avoids the situation where you're just randomly hammered early on if you draw all difficult mythos cards.
 
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Dan Wojciechowski
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I thumbed you just for suggesting "petting zoo" mode. laugh
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David Alfredsson
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So I decided to build a deck according to the proggressive rules and realized that progressive and ultra proggresive differ very little.
In all colors there as many easy as hard and the blues are equal across all three difficulties. To cut it short here are numbers:

Green easy:5 medium:8 hard:5
Yellow easy:5 medium:11 hard:5
Blue easy:4 medium:4 hard:4

In other words, in the base game you simply deal 1 green meidium to the hard and easy piles each and 2 yellow mediums to the yellow easy and hard piles each that makes them equal.

I'm still going to play with both types of proggressive builds just to check for differences.

It also just occured to me that none of the AOs have blues in the third phase so any type of proggressive build there would either have to choose difficulty from the three piles or halfing medium to mix it into hard and easy and then picking for the mythos deck.

And again, taking a look at the hard rumors (blues) if you actually had a rumor in the third phase it should be required to be a hard one because those card are not ones you can ignore even if you have only 2 turns left. 2 of them can cause you to immediately lose the game given the wrong circumstances.
 
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Nicola Zee
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The technique I use, I call 'Balanced'
Sort the cards into the three piles of colors (Green, Yellow, Blue)
Randomly remove 1 hard and 1 easy from the Green pile and the Yellow pile. I don't bother removing any from the blue as the 'easy' rumours are still fairly hard. With 2 players games, we've found Lost Knowledge rumour can be fatal and that's marked as easy.

Then set-up as normal.

This slightly reduces the chance of getting several very hard or very easy mythos cards turning up as 2 hard and 2 easy have been removed before set-up.
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Michael Dillenbeck
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Your progressive sounds like something I tried one game:

Start with easy and normal mythos cards shuffled into 3 color stacks for Act I, remove the easy and just use normal for Act II, and then add hard in for Act II. Use a die to randomly determine which one to draw.
 
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David Alfredsson
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That seems a very interesting way of doing things.
Why would you completely ignore the deckbuilding? Seems to me that would unbalance the game somewhat. Too likely that you'd get 2 or more rumors at once.

Still, I might try that sometime.
 
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Rafael Ramus
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dewinduvae wrote:
That seems a very interesting way of doing things.
Why would you completely ignore the deckbuilding? Seems to me that would unbalance the game somewhat. Too likely that you'd get 2 or more rumors at once.

Still, I might try that sometime.


The bad side of the progressive deck is that you may end up winning before the interesting stuff hits the table.
 
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David Alfredsson
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Well, having played with proggressive a couple of times now, it IS easier than playing with easy mode. You have to pick one each of the difficulties for rumors, start the game with the easy.
Otherwise it really is too easy.

It makes thematic sense to do a progressive deck, but mechanically it fails somewhat.

One may need to do the first phase with half easy and half normal to not get too big of a head start.
 
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Corinthian
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I have another question:

How well does the game work if you ignore the composition on the AO, and just use the whole Mythos deck, shuffled? 'Arkham Horror' style?

Obviously this affects the probability/difficulty curve a bit, but I suspect not actually that much?? Or at least, not in a way that is very noticeable during each game.

Of course you can still keep count of the cards so that the deck ends the game if the "last" card is drawn.



The reason I ask is: the Mythos deck is the most time-consuming part of game setup! When I first got EH it surprised me that the deck had to be cut in such a clumsy way, instead of using an in-game method such as selectively resolving or discarding cards based on symbols/tags on the AO.
 
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Chris J Davis
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corinthian_85 wrote:
I have another question:

How well does the game work if you ignore the composition on the AO, and just use the whole Mythos deck, shuffled? 'Arkham Horror' style?

Obviously this affects the probability/difficulty curve a bit, but I suspect not actually that much?? Or at least, not in a way that is very noticeable during each game.


Umm... Wouldn't you get a LOT more Rumours?
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Rafael Ramus
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corinthian_85 wrote:

The reason I ask is: the Mythos deck is the most time-consuming part of game setup! When I first got EH it surprised me that the deck had to be cut in such a clumsy way, instead of using an in-game method such as selectively resolving or discarding cards based on symbols/tags on the AO.


It is actually not that hard to build, come on!

But back to your question, I believe that you would have games terribly unbalanced, like, too hard during some turns and then, suddenly, to easy for no reason whatsoever.

But what do I know? I'd be interested in hearing a session of this.
 
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Corinthian
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Umm... Wouldn't you get a LOT more Rumours?


You'd get some more, but it wouldn't be massive. The Mythos deck is (very approx) 40% events, 35% environments, 25% rumours. For most AOs, you get ~16 cards, of which only 2 are rumours, so that's twice what you'd get on a random draw. HOWEVER - the AOs all concentrate rumors in the first two Stages of the deck, so for those Stages the proportions become roughly comparable with a random draw. In Stage III, yeah you'd probably start to notice.
 
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David Alfredsson
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The second easiest way of doing this would be to have three mythos decks in the box. Ie the three colors. Just count the total needed of one color from all the phases, pull that many cards for that color, blend green and yellow freely...
Cut the deck in three and put the blue cards on two of the resultant decks and all decks on top of each other. Should be quicker and slightly less work while still ensuring that rumors don't come too late.

The absolute easiest would be to just mix them all together as you described and to count the deck up for the right total number. Say 16 or so.
Just to make sure the semi-hated running out of mythos mechanic remains in place.

The first would probably not change from the original appreciably but would be quicker, the second could give you a lot of greens when the AO me hanics is tailored for yellow and vice-versa.
 
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Chris J Davis
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corinthian_85 wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Umm... Wouldn't you get a LOT more Rumours?


You'd get some more, but it wouldn't be massive. The Mythos deck is (very approx) 40% events, 35% environments, 25% rumours. For most AOs, you get ~16 cards, of which only 2 are rumours, so that's twice what you'd get on a random draw. HOWEVER - the AOs all concentrate rumors in the first two Stages of the deck, so for those Stages the proportions become roughly comparable with a random draw. In Stage III, yeah you'd probably start to notice.


Even getting one more rumour would make the game massively harder.
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Cameron McKenzie
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If you find setting it up really frustrating, then do it as you go. Set up stage 1 and start playing. When it runs out, set up stage 2, etc.
 
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Rafael Ramus
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I really don't get what's so difficult about it. I mean, I have 3 shuffled decks, one of each color. I look at the ancient's setup, get the right number of cards from bottom to top, shuffling each phase. I can't see myself doing this in more than a minute.

One thing I always do is I decide who is the Ancient I'll play next game. Than I do his deck and leave it done in a bag. Next time I take the game to play, it is already there. I guess with the expansions you can even have different decks ready for several games.
 
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Alex
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Here's an idea I just had:

Actually I like having some knowledge about the chances what's the next card going to be. Makes the game more strategic. But I'd be okay with breaking up that order just one tiny bit, inducing some managable amount of uncertainty and anxiety, especially in the beginning of the game. Worst case, you'd be confronted by one more Rumour. Best case (most of the time), you'd be playing two more turns (a.k.a. increased chance to get tanked by some mean effect, yay):

Here's how it goes:

After you've set up your Mythos Deck the usual way, construct a SECOND deck, using the exact same ratio of blue/yellow/green cards. This one gets shuffled, though. Pick one random card from the second deck and shuffle it into the Phase 1 Stack at the Top of your Default Mythos Deck. Then, if you like, put one random card from the second deck at the bottom (this is basically just to increase the maximum number of possible turns - something I'd like very much). The rest of the second deck goes back into the box.

That's it. Shouldn't break original gameplay too much.
 
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Alex
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Played a little around with this idea. Suddenly I don't think that randomizing the chance for a third Rumor is such a good idea anymore. If you want a third Rumor, do it like the rules suggest: if everyone agrees, just draw one initially at random (this way you can actually prepare for the extra-challenge, instead of just being kicked in the nuts halfway through).

I'm all for mixing up the (kind of) deterministic sequence of Mythos-Cards, though; at least a little. The best (and least fiddliest) thing to achieve this, without skewing balance between Yellow and Green Cards too much, would be this:

After you've set up your three GOO-exclusive Piles of Mythos Cards, draw 2 additional Yellow Cards and 1 additional Green Card. Shuffle these 3 cards, then put 1 into each pile. That's it. Ratio between Yellow and Green Cards will (roughly) stay the same (providing a tiny edge towards Gate Spawning/Reckoning), while the appearance of Rumors may get a little bit more uncertain. This aspect balances out with the fact, that you've now 3 Extra Turns to play, before the GOO wakes up and smashes everything around him to bits. This could also be an acceptable solution/compromise for people, who don't like losing due to the Mythos Deck running dry.
 
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