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Subject: Beating biggs walks the dogs rss

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Josh Brown
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Rookie
Biggs
Dagger + AdvSens x2


A squad i come up against regularly in a tournament setting.

Simple question how can one beat it? ive come up against it twice, once wit h elite rebels and once with lando and daggers each time ive taken out both x-wings and narrowly missed out on taking the B-Wings.

Im not too concerned with the rest of the tourney squads there is just one particular person who runs this and i really want to get one over him.

Ideas welcome. Im leaning towards bombers or krassis + markshmanship + Mercenary copilot with 2x saber + ptl + stealth. Lay the stress on and use the saber manoeuvrability.
 
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Assault Missile helps a lot if you manage to land it on Biggs, and so does Cluster against the Bwings. Bwings die very quickly against concentrated fire, so make sure all your ships hammer that 1 ship and take it out as fast as possible.


Other methods would be using PTL TIEints and stay out of the Dagger's firing arcs, which can be done relatively easily if your PS is higher than his (hint hint imperial aces), but if your opponent is flying the perfected variant (swap rookie Xwing for Rebel HWK + ion turret), then you will have some problems if you are considering this strategy

If flying rebels, simply bring along 1 or 2 Ywings / HWKs and ion the daggers.
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Josh Brown
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Another option would be to drop marksmanship off krassis and take an ion cannon to get them pointed where you want and then have the ptl sabers pounce (tourney is this saturday no royal guards for us just yet )
 
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no, ion cannons would not work as well. You want to repeatedly ionize them and have them completely paralyzed and not be able to turn around and fire at you, while you continue to keep hammering them (gently) with the ion turret

furthermore, on the imperial side your ion cannons are mounted on large ships only, so even if you could get behind them and ionize them, eventually you would pass them due to the faster speed of the large ships
 
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evil_wins Solo
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You are playing against a really competitive squadron. I would reccomend you not to use assault missiles, because they are too dependent on luck. Yes, you could deal a lot of spread damage, but what you really want is to take away biggs as fast as you can. Since he is probably going to be at range 3 in the first shots, it would not be a bad idea to use some secondary weapons to lower his defence dies. The build uses medium skill pilot abbility, so maybe you should consider using some higher skilled pilots with swarm tactics. As a swarm based player, I would reccomend you this.

Vader+ Conccussion Missiles + swarm tactics

Black squadron + Swarm Tactics

Academy Pilot x 4

If you manage to concentrate all of your fire on Biggs you will be shooting a focused concussion missile (the best attack in the game so far), and two standard tie attacks on him before he gets to shoot. Hopefully that will take him down. Since all of your squad is based on vader's high pilot abbility, it will be a temptation to try and get him first. No better outcome for you, since he is one of the best tanks in the game he will take fire better than his other tie wingmen. If he ignore's Vader, try to go for a target lock+focus at range one with him.





 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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I've been struggling against this for the past 3 tournaments. I've tried 4 Y-Wings (twice) and Han + 2Ys. I screwed up the maneuvering in Han's game, so I'm not sure if that build is good/bad against it, but either way I struggled. I'm about ready to try the Scimitar Blade next tourney (5xTIE Bombers w/Cluster Missiles) just to bomb the hell out of Biggs on the first volley, then keep the rest for B-Wings...

-shnar
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evil_wins Solo
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Although, if you want to use the rebels you may consider facing biggs against another Biggs.

Note: This Build is simply evil, I am not sure of its competitive usage, but it sure seems like a hard counter to your problems. I have just played it once, but I didn't lose a ship against another 3 rebel build. Here it goes.

Horton Salm + 2 proton torpedoes + Ion Cannon Turret + r5 astromech.

Kyle Katarn + Squad Leader + Blaster turret+ Moldy Crow title

Biggs + r2f2

Strategy: Delay the fight as long as you can to mass focus tokens on kyle katarn. Then engage and use rdf2 on Biggs and give him two focus with squad leader and kyle's abbility. Fire Torpedos with Horton Salm and take the biggs on the other side down, rerolling blanks. If you manage to approach with kyle at range two from the enemy biggs, use your turret. His remaining ships will fire at your biggs, who is defending with 3 dice (4 if he is at range 3) and one or two focus on him. From the rest of the match abbuse your turrets and specially your Horton Salm Ion Turret with his abbility.

It may seem a little difficult to master, but if that 2dagger build is all you are scared of I would go for this one.


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Josh Brown
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Ohhh im going to have to practice that one, thanks for all the advice guys
 
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Ralph T
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I practiced against this build with Krassis + HLC + Rebel captive and Howlrunner + three Academy ties and think this imperial build is very well suited against it. The pilot skill of the Biggs walk the dog pilots are not well matched against Krassis and Howl, and either Biggs or more likely a Dagger will end up with stress as soon as they target Krassis. If they don't target Krassis they will be taking a lot of damage from him.
 
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Neil, the Tusken Tactician
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Duraham wrote:
... but if your opponent is flying the perfected variant (swap rookie Xwing for Rebel HWK + ion turret), then you will have some problems if you are considering this strategy...

Woohoo! That's my squad "Is This a Dagger?" I like the idea of it being called a perfected variant. That made my morning.
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Tusken Raider wrote:
Duraham wrote:
... but if your opponent is flying the perfected variant (swap rookie Xwing for Rebel HWK + ion turret), then you will have some problems if you are considering this strategy...

Woohoo! That's my squad "Is This a Dagger?" I like the idea of it being called a perfected variant. That made my morning.


I was once asked my opinion of the world's champion list, and how I would improve it (if necessary), and I thought about changing the rookie Xwing out and putting some support element in, like a Ywing with ion turret.

Then I saw your version, and it seems that we have arrived at the same diagnosis
 
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jeremy betsch
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Duraham wrote:
Tusken Raider wrote:
Duraham wrote:
... but if your opponent is flying the perfected variant (swap rookie Xwing for Rebel HWK + ion turret), then you will have some problems if you are considering this strategy...

Woohoo! That's my squad "Is This a Dagger?" I like the idea of it being called a perfected variant. That made my morning.


I was once asked my opinion of the world's champion list, and how I would improve it (if necessary), and I thought about changing the rookie Xwing out and putting some support element in, like a Ywing with ion turret.

Then I saw your version, and it seems that we have arrived at the same diagnosis

Likewise, I came up with the same solution.

I also run a second variant of the squad, that drops a bit of firepower for some anti-ace tactics: 1 Dagger w/ Advanced Sensors, 2 Red Sq's, and Roark w/ Ion and Recon. This variant all moves at once, so it's a bit easier to maneuver, and one of the ships shoots before Soontir/Wedge/Wes/Han/Vader/Howlrunner/Anything else from PS 5-10
 
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John DiMaggio
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Well, Sabers + PTL CAN work well but you need to lose initiative, and you have no guarantee of doing that. Krassis is alright, simply because he's PS 5, but he has other issues like moving a bit too fast to use HLC effectively. I'd say 1 firespray + 2 Interceptors is a bit vulnerable due to it's low hp.

Honestly, anything that is PS5-6 will do well against Adv. Sensor Daggers.
I.e. Chewbacca + EH, Biggs, Garven, Dutch + Ion, Ibtisam + Adv Sensors for Rebels. For Imps, PS5+ TIES are great, and 7 TIE howlrunner-lead swarms can work well no matter what you play against. 2 of the top 4 lists at Worlds were still swarms .

Some people have been playing PS 6 6-TIE swarms or old school Swarm Tactic + Mauler + Howlrunner swarms as a direct counters to Adv. Sensor Dagger squads.

Alternatively, try and extend the game a bit. Make them fly that thing in formation, having a PS 2,4,4,5 can be a bit awkward to keep together. Don't just fly at them and let them set-up range 3 Biggs behind asteroid shots on turn 3 just like they planned.

Or, if you feel you have more firepower, you can opt to joust if you can set-up across from them. Adv Sensors don't do much for them in a straight joust. Caveat being, don't play some K-turn game with them. They will win with earning a focus back every K-turn. If you can, joust, disengage with a straight 4-5 + evade or focus defense token or if you can, escape their arc (probably not possible without a boost action).
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Jeff Wilder

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I lost to Paul's squadron in the VASSAL tourney. Having the best opportunity for beating it comes down to positioning in the engagement round.

BWtD wants Biggs at Range 3 from you, while the other three ships are Range 2 to you. If BWtD achieves this -- an asteroid in the way is a bonus -- then it gets a big leg up. (This is true of all Biggs squadrons, generally speaking, but BWtDs gives up no firepower, which many Biggs squadrons do.)

So, to beat the squadron, you have to be unpredictable in your movements so that you avoid giving up that advantage. (Unfortunately, all you're doing is avoiding a disadvantage, not creating one of your own, but hopefully your squadron has other advantages. Unfortunately, also, avoiding Range 3 shots at Biggs isn't the whole story -- I avoided it, but still lost -- but it will stop you from having to dig out of a hole.)
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John DiMaggio
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Jeff Wilder wrote:

So, to beat the squadron, you have to be unpredictable in your movements so that you avoid giving up that advantage.


This. I really like this. Don't be predictable, as you really should see where they're going. The thing with running Biggs is that you're incredibly predictable about where you're headed. There really should't be a doubt where they'll end up in 2 or 3 turns. Use this to your advantage and either stall (don't be where they expect you to be) by 1-moves, or 1-turns + barrel rolls. Or catch them off-guard by rushing their position before they get to set-up their "Biggs-behind asteroid at range 3 move" via 4 or 5 straights + boost and/or forward-inching barrel roll.
 
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Paul Heaver
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I've been playing with the "Is This a Dagger?" variant lately as well, since the Ion Cannon really messes with opposing B-Wings. The meta has been filled with B-Wings, and Ion Cannons do well against them.

But yes, Ion Cannons and slightly higher pilot skills are the best ways to beat my list. That, or a 7 TIE swarm, if you are an experienced swarm pilot. After Imperial Aces, as was mentioned, Royal Guards w/PTL should be strong against this list.

The list was made to beat lists that run low PS nonuniques, and the meta at the time included no Ion turrets.

Paul
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Josh Brown
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http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v2!25:18:-1:1:;25:18:-1:1:;37:12,-1,-1,21,-1:-1:-1:

Now when the royal guards come out, take of gunner, stick in another good crew member and upgrade sabers to royal guards and that would be solid i think.

Sure a bit glassy but fly the ints well and fast and get in behind as the formation gets stressed and broken up by kath (i think i got my bounty hunters confused before)
 
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Reckless Fable
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I have walked the dogs at two tournaments so far.

BBBB gave me problems since it essentially traded 2 agility dice for 6 more shields overall. He simply shot down Biggs and then everyone else.

The Swarm (tm) gave me problems once and died horribly to me once. Focused fire wins games.

A match against Chewie, Biggs and Garvin went to time. I had my rookie, and my B's had 3 hull left between them, so it was very much down a few rolls in that match.

I agree that High PS squadrons are challenging since it takes away some of the advanced sensor's advantage.

I also agree that Dogs is an anti-meta list.




 
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Matthew Saville
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I have 2 lists that regularly beat BwtD, one for each faction.

Rebels:

Rookie Pilot
Blue Squadron Pilot + Advanced Sensors
Gold Squadron Pilot + Ion Cannon Turret
Roark Garnet + Ion Turret + Chewbacca

Focus out Biggs as early as possible with the B & X, then get behind the B's and Ion them off the table.
Granted it's all in the manouvering, but it's worked for me.

Imps:

Darth Vader + Swarm Tactics + Assault Missile
Mauler Mithel + Squad Leader
Dark Curse + Stealth Device
Scimitar Squadron + Assault Missiles + Cluster/Concussion Missiles

This list lights up Biggs with 2 Assault Missiles with Focus @ PS9 turn 1-2, runs interference with Dark Curse,
and gets close to do damage with Mauler Mithel. This one works against Falcon lists as well, and should
do a number on Swarms, though it's not very forgiving.
As with all missiles, this one is dependant on good rolls, but has yet to let me down on the alpha strike.
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David Pontier
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For those that have flown against both or flown with both, how does BWtD compare to Bloody Daggers:
Dagger + Adv Sensors x2
Red x2

They are both BBXX lists. The B-Wings in both are the same. The Bloody daggers have all their ships at skill 4, while the Other list has Biggs at 5 and the rookie at 2. And you have Biggs ability.

I lost a Blue squad on the first combat exchange (before it fired) the last time I flew against Bloody daggers and I don't see the Biggs list doing the same thing. Since only three of those ships fire first and Biggs will be at range three, possibly behind an asteroid and will likely want to save his focus for defense, you'll be lucky if you do any damage with him. So you only have 2 ships shooting first, and you are unlikely to even kill an X-Wing with those 2 shots, assuming range 2 for the attack. But the bloody dagger squadron at range 2 (and even range 3 in my game) can kill a B-Wing before it fires.

And as many people have said, that first combat round where Biggs is tucked behind an asteroid is crucial. If you can avoid that, then the list often becomes a standard BBXX list. In the three times I've faced Bloody Daggers the X-Wings are always my primary targets anyway since they do the same damage as a B-Wing, but are easier to take off the board. I haven't flown against BWtD yet.
 
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Allen T
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What I like about assault missiles from what I have seen of squads these days is that almost all squads have at least one one or two agility ships. 7 or 8 TIE swarms are becoming more rare, so outside the 6 TIE elite-swarm you are going to be able to hit, and probably do a lot of damage with even an un-modified assault missile.
 
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Jeff Wilder

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(I'm so annoyed by the name "Bloody Daggers." So on-the-nose. AFAIK, I'm the first to give that list a name, and I called it "Bloody Knives" ... and I thought that was too on-the-nose! (Now I call it "Bleeding Edge," which is an infinitely better name than my original or the one that unfortunately stuck.))

David, your analysis is right: if you can take away the positional advantage that BwtD looks for, it just becomes a BBXX, because (as you said), you usually want to eliminate an X-wing anyway. Might as well be Biggs.

When I played against BWtD, I was running Bleeding Edge. He didn't get much of a positional advantage, but I did lose one action (in some weird way I can't remember), and his dice in the engagement round were just a little better than mine, which allowed Biggs to survive. From that point on, Paul flew a little better than I did, and the dice didn't make up for my piloting, so I lost. If I had taken out Biggs -- as statistically was maybe 50/50 -- I would have had a big(gs) advantage.

BTW, when you're playing against Bleeding Edge with decent firepower (say, four 3-dice guns), it's sometimes worth trying to take out a B-wing first. If you're laying 12 dice (with actions) on a B-wing at Range 2, you've got almost the same chance of taking it out as you do an X-wing at Range 2 (and certainly a better chance than if the X-wings are at Range 3), and the B-wing is much more dangerous in-close, so it can easily be worth it. (But most people don't lead with their B-wings, IME.)
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Paul Heaver
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Jeff, I remember that game: I hit every one of my opening round of fire (after spending focus, etc), while you rolled 3 or 4 blanks. That disparity, plus a forced split of your fire between multiple targets, certainly helped me!

I actually prefer firing at the B-Wings first, for the reasons you mention - 12 dice can do a lot of damage, and the B-Wings can't be allowed to focus and K-turn later on. The Reds aren't that scary once you start jousting them, and the Rookie can block actions on them but not the B's.

The way it plays out is that 12 dice of focused attack will generate 9 hits on average. So, if I (running the Biggs list) can split that fire because Biggs is out of range of two ships and in range to two others, both will live. If I can't, Biggs is still at R3 rolling 12 defense dice (16 if I have a rock). If he has the rock, he almost certainly lives. If not, he's getting 4.5 natural evades, and hopefully saved his focus to let him live. Meanwhile I'm sending 9 focused dice at range 2 and 3 unfocused at range 3 (possibly with a rock) back at you. That's about 8 hits, where an opposing X dodges a bit over 3 (and likely dies) or a B dodges almost 2 (and is mauled). If the ship isn't dead, Biggs lines up for the R2 attack with focus to kill it before it shoots on the following turn, then dies to your return fire. At that point, you have two ships left to shoot, and have to kill my Rookie before he fires (at range 1). If your 8 dice of attack can't beat 4 dice of defense by 5 damage (odds are in my favor), then my 3 range 1 shots probably mauled or killed another ship.

So the short form is, if Biggs lives past the first turn of firing, I'm likely ahead, and it will snowball the way rebel 4-ship mirrors tend to.

I don't think the list becomes a standard BBXX list, because you still have an extra range increment on your attacks to deal with until Biggs dies. The extra defense die you get in the mirror for range really adds up.

Paul
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Josh Brown
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What about the doom shuttle?

I havent flown this myself and not sure if i want to gamble on it for a tourney but the premise is cool.

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v2!28:18:-1:1:;27:18:-1:1:;56:43,-1,46,45:-1:3:

manouver the shuttle to block the B-wings (those advanced sensors will be a pain...but prevents him from focusing if he needs to get out of the way)

Try block the first row, stress them with rebel captive, and blast away at the ones in the back while the ints charge up and behind...
 
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Allen T
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I have beaten both a Biggs+Blue (I think it was Biggs. Might bave been Luke) and a Red Red Dagger Dagger squad with a mini-swarm + suicide shuttle. I'd rather fight those than a Falcon any day.
 
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