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Subject: Champaign, IL Store Championship (Armored Gopher Games) rss

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kyu kyu
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Winner: Justin Leisner (me)

Coming off of a SC win the previous weekend, I have clinched another SC nearby.

These are the decks:

Gabriel Santiago

3 Daily Casts
3 Sure Gamble
3 Armitage Codebusting
3 Mr Li
3 Account Siphon
1 Sneakdoor Beta
2 Crescentus
2 Blackguard
2 Infiltration
3 Inside Job
3 Special Order
3 Emergency Shutdown
2 Snitch
1 Femme Fatale
1 Crash Space
1 Kati Jones
1 Knight (2inf)
3 Datasucker (3inf)
1 Mimic (1inf)
2 Corroder (4inf)
1 Yog.0 (1inf)
1 Déjà vu (2inf)

Cerebral Imaging

3 Project Vitruvius
3 Accelerated Beta Test
3 Project Ares
2 Profiteering
3 Hedge Fund
3 Restructure
3 Subliminal Messaging
3 Jackson Howard (3inf)
2 Midseason Replacements (8inf)
1 Psychographics (3inf)
1 Closed Accounts (1inf)
3 Enigma
3 Bastion
1 Wall of Static
3 Rototurret
3 Archived Memories
3 Green Level Clearance
3 Blue Level Clearance
3 Biotic Labor

The Scene: 32 Players, 3 Swiss rounds, cut to top 8. 65min rounds.

Round 1: vs Max (Kate/HBETF)

As Gabe, he got lots of agendas, and with sneakdoor I was able to rip them all out of his hand and even 1 in archives. It was bad luck for him to get so many, and I read the signs of points in yard = more points in hand.

As corp, this game went on much longer than I wanted. It took me forever to find a biotic labor, and I wasn't getting draw cards to help get there either. Fortunately, he was unable to rip agendas and the ICE taxed him well. Eventually I found a biotic and using archived memories to retrieve, set about scoring myself to a win slowly.

2-0

Round 2: vs Tony 1-1 (Weyland core/Gabe)

Tony is from my town's scene, and he has been busy lately, and as such out of practice.

As Gabe, I manage to pressure his centrals early. He gets a lot of money, but his ICE is expensive. I Infiltrated a Snare! behind a Curtain Wall, which saved me a lot of trouble, but then inside jobbed the following turn into a 1 counter cerebral overwriter, after face checking the curtain wall to make him rez it. I keep the pressure up and get my 7 points, being careful to have enough credits to beat a Sea Source if need be.

As corp, Tony gets off to a good start. He grabs some agendas early out of my HQ. He sets up nicely with Sneakdoor, Femme, and Corroder (i think). As he rips another agenda from me to get to 5 or 6 points, I follow up with the Midseason>Ares>Psycho hadouken, wiping his board. He plays a datasucker next turn, and runs to prevent subliminals returning and gets some virus counters built up. I archived memories the psycho, and ares->psycho again, wiping the datasucker to reduce incentive to run, so i can hopefully get my subliminals back. He is unable to recover after this and I score my remaining points out of hand. I really thought he was gonna get that one, until the Ares went off. I could have set up an over scored vitruvius in this game, and won a turn earlier by making a double score, but as it all seemed well in hand at that point, and I was on a half-nights sleep, I didn't want to calculate it out.

4-0

Round 3: vs Sam 4-0(Kate/HBETF)

Sam is also from my town's scene. We faced off in our SC the week before in swiss rounds. I am worried that his Kate will set up quickly and efficiently break my ICE, as he uses the big run-efficient Shaper breakers, although expensive to install.

Sam's ETF uses asset econ, ashes, rsvp, and various bioroids that are not cheap to get through once they stack up. I keep him poor as much as possible, and trash assets as I can. I get a decent starting hand, and draws, as does he. He manages to score a Mandatory Upgrades, and there was no way for me to stop it, tucked behind an Ashe, RSVP, and Viper. I knew what it was when he put 3 counters on it. Deciding I couldn't stop it, I went for plan B, bankrupt him. So I did, I siphoned him the next two turns for whatever money he had. I held my tags as I know he doesn't punish tags, and I wouldn't have time to remove them anyways. I get some runs in on HQ as well, managing to rip the other 2 mandatory upgrades. I continue to rip agendas out of his, as if guided by the cosmos. He is in utter disbelief, informing me that I pulled the 1 agenda every time he drew one.

Versus his Kate, I had to Ice my R&D first to protect against Indexing and Maker's Eye and R&D Interfaces. Then I blocked my hand. He managed to get points out of me regardless. He gets to 4 quickly. I am doing my best to make credits and draw more cards, trying to delay his assault with more ICE. Enigma has R&D wrapped up, but my HQ, while defended, cant keep him out. He rips 2 more points, going to 6. I have everything I need, but no Midseasons, and he just put out a Femme, making him particularly vulnerable. I knew my best chance is to draw off Jackson to get it, otherwise I am very likely to lose the game as I will lose my chance to make Psychographics active. So I dig. After 2 clicks of Jackson, I draw it. I midseason him to put him at about 15 tags, and he will have minimum 5 cards on the board the next turn. I discard a couple junk cards, leaving 2 agendas in hand. He runs my hand, but fails to get anything, and I know that was likely his last chance. I drop the Ares and Psycho it for 9, wiping his board. The following turn I archived memories the Psycho, install Vitruvius, and Psycho it for 5. I then use the counters over the following 2 turns to recur Psycho and score 2 more agendas, stealing the win 7-6 in a major comeback.

6-0

I was the only undefeated, I believe there was one 5-1, and the rest of the top 8 are 4-2, and there were a lot of 4-2 records, so tiebreakers mattered a lot.

Top 8: vs Will (Kate/HBETF)

This was the rematch from the final table of the previous week's SC in my town. Will got his wish, but at what cost!

As higher seed, I choose Gabe first. Will plays a fast advance HB, with low cost ICE and tollbooths. He will score out of hand as often as he can. It's imperative to keep him under 7 credits as much as possible. The short version of this game is I siphon the hell out of him. But it wasn't so simple. I started with a nice hand, and was able to get into his centrals early thanks to an early corroder. However, I discarded my extra corroder after a bit, and then hit a rototurret on a remote, losing my installed one. Fortunately I had Mr Li out, and went fishing for my Deja Vu to get my corroder back. This took FOREVER, but I got the Knight along the way which helped, and Sneakdoor which got me back in the hand a bit. I also siphoned the hell out of him, and floated 6 tags. Eventually he would trash my Kati and Li. He scored 5 points in total, but I was able to rip what i needed for the game win.

As Cerebral, I need to get 5 points to take the match. Not too hard when you run biotic and psycho. But I know he runs indexing, so my first priority is to ice up, which i do. I played it cool as if it was a normal game and i needed 7 points to win, no rush. I get well defended, and biotic my 5+ points needed to win. I do not remember if he stole any agendas from me in this game, i suspect he did, but clearly not enough.

Top 4: vs Matt(Gabe/Weyland advance ID)

Matt is one of two people who i test with. To say that we know each others decks and play style is an understatement. Things we feel we could bluff or trick many players with, do not fly against each other. We played this Match up a lot, and there is no clearly favored side, tho we agree my Gabe is favored over his Weyland, but his gabe v CI is about 50/50.

So I start with Gabe again as higher seed. You may notice I always start with Gabe, as any corp with amazing FA ability makes for an easy 2nd game.

Long story short, I rip 6 from his hand and a posted bounty off a remote behind an Archer, not in that order. He was getting ICE'd up well enough, but I had just enough tricks and income to get where I needed to be at the time I needed to do it. I also got lucky with HQ and pulled the agendas. He did score 1 point, but forfeited it to rez archer.

So we went to the 2nd game, with me having won the first 7-0. We were not 100% sure if we would play a 3rd game if he 7-0 me here, or if higher seed wins ties. We decide to just play as I can easily score 1 point out of hand and trivialize the whole who wins the tie thing. Well, I got a good hand, but no biotic. He YOLOs and runs centrals like crazy. He manages to get up to 6 points. I still have a 3/2 agenda in my hand, but still no biotic, although after some siphon action I still have the credits I need to win should I draw it. He makes another hand run, gets nothing, draws a couple cards, thinks for a moment, YOLOs and inside jobs R&D, ripping an ABT for the game win. We then ask what we do with a 7-0, 0-7 tie, and it is indeed higher seed wins ties. So that whole second game didn't matter, but he felt a little better because of it I think.

Top 2: Final Table: vs Jason (GRNDL/Kate)

Hey guess what?!?! yea, I run first.

I get a massive econ start hand. So turn 1 i run a bit and hit 2 grndl refineries, trashing them, but silly me I forgot to mark his bad pub on my side, and didnt use it, drop a daily casts and pass turn. Turn 2 i run more and make more money. I get 1 point. He scores Hostile out of hand. He forfeits it for an archer on HQ, keeping me out for a while. grrrr... I rip the last hostile from R&D. He gets a little more ICE out, but I inside Job his hand and shutdown the archer and drop a crescentus. He puts a hadrians in front of the HQ archer, which he rezzes when i run. The following turn I drop a knight and run the hand again, derezzing Hadrians with crescentus, as he didnt bother to advance Hadrians at least once

He has been drawing a lot, and discarding a lot. I fear he might be stacking some agendas in his trash, as I saw a punitive earlier. So i am disinterested in scoring a lot of points in one turn. However, I hit HQ and pull a cleaners. Now i feel I have to get the last 2 points immediately or risk being shot to death. Although I think I had more money than him, and was likely safe anyways barring some crazy burst econ. I also had blackguard and snitch in hand ready to rape that Hadrians Wall over and over if need be. I decide to hit archives that turn, and he has points in it, giving me the 7-0 game win.

Game 2 as corp. I only need to score 1 point to win the match. I think he grabs an agenda from my hand turn 1 or 2, but by turn 4 or 5 i have all i need and biotic an agenda for the win.

Unlike last tournament, I did not use blackguard much except in 1 match this time around. Although there were 2 other matches I would have liked the memory, and had I not won a couple games when I did, I would have played it a turn or 2 later. Snitch however, helped a great deal vs Tony, even without blackguard.

This version of CI, as opposed to the version I concocted a week earlier, was much better in my opinion. Psychographics with Vitruvius/Project Ares is very brutal. As awesome as Project Ares is, I can say the massively over scored Vitruvius might be even more dangerous, and easier to set up. I will not tell you all the cool things you can do in this deck, but if you find or know them, i think you will agree there is definitely some cool tricks in there.
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Derrick Billings
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For the record, Justin was the winner at this tournament as well:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1131923/tournament-report-gr...

That one was 25 players, this one was a field of 32.

Glad to see the guy who beat me both games in Swiss made it to the final table ;-)

----------------

Deck thoughts--I don't want to straight up net-deck but I'm strongly considering bringing the MidPsycho combo into my CI list. I depend on recursion and almost always used all my Archived Memories and at least two Jackson Howards on recycling Biotic Labor.

The click and card efficiency of a massively overscored PV is making me starry-eyed. I usually downshift at least one, often two turns, while I waste clicks retrieving my BLs and getting back FA money. (I run Corporate War which needs $19 to double-biotic for a net expenditure of $5). With an overscored PV, all those operations...Biotic Labor, Midseasons, Psychographics, they're all still basically in my HQ. I could even fist back up midway through an HQ run to dilute the agenda density.

10 ice, and not even all that big of ice, kind of terrifies me. I run low in my CI deck, because you wind up seeing so much of the deck, but still. Also, I'd be relucted to run Profiteering because the BP could enable so many more runs at the deck and hand--I like my servers to be expensive to break.

what do you mean, "points in yard = more points in hand?"
 
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kyu kyu
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"points in yard = points in hand" means if they are discarding agendas (to an undefended, by any means) archives, it is generally a good sign that he has drawn too many agendas, and his hand is ripe with them.
 
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kyu kyu
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Grimwalker wrote:
Also, I'd be relucted to run Profiteering because the BP could enable so many more runs at the deck and hand--I like my servers to be expensive to break.


Profiteering only gets scored for full money after project ares has landed, or if they have ridiculous money already so that the bad pub doesnt matter, but 15 credits for you does. It is also used as the bait agenda, in the event they are not getting an agenda and you are ready to combo off of ares.

If you feel you will never use it, then i recommend removing them for 1 private security force, and another ICE. Gila Hands Arcology is also fine, but I find you are not doing clicks for credits normally often enough to warrant its inclusion.

PSF can ACTUALLY be extremely good, as you can use the aforementioned Vitruvius/Biotic/Restructure combo to get up to 6 actions (or however many is necessary) and just kill them with the meat damage. I find they tend to have a 4 or 5 card hand most of the time, as they aren't installing much and are drawing frantically for answers.
 
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Derrick Billings
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Quote:
Profiteering only gets scored for full money after project ares has landed, or if they have ridiculous money already so that the bad pub doesnt matter, but 15 credits for you does. It is also used as the bait agenda, in the event they are not getting an agenda and you are ready to combo off of ares.


Makes sense. I haven't had time to really sit down and evaluate my options for money since shifting to MidPsycho would mean giving up my Celebrity Gifts.
 
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spags
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Nice job!

Have you faced no dex that Siphon you ad naseum?
 
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kyu kyu
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I think the most i have been siphoned in a game is 3, other than making the runner feel better, it didnt have any impact on my game plan for those respective games. I can't say I have had to face off against anyone doing that+same old thing+deja vu+levy AR etc etc. I do however make a point to block HQ vs criminals and suspected Siphon users, same as blocking R&D vs Shapers and Anarchs who like to dig.
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Peter O
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I was a fan of Project Ares when it came out. Nice to see it being used to good effect. Congrats on the win!
 
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I tried the PSF flavor of this on OCTGN last, and at times your money goes up to 40+. If they siphon you 4 times you are taken into the 20's, so Really the only reason the runner siphons that is to get the money for himself.
 
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Derrick Billings
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Sometimes a Siphon is "you've got 5 less and I've got 10 more and that's the way I wanted it to be."
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spags
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Nice. I guess it's hard to believe it works with only 10 ICE, but I guess you only have to ICE HQ and R&D.
 
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Niles Stanley
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This stuff really doesn't work if people know to run HQ frequently. We've tried it so, so many times. Leaving archives open against datasucker means your HQ/R&D ice is basically blank. It absolutely crushes people who focus on R&D because they don't know how to play against CI though.
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kyu kyu
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hhooo wrote:
This stuff really doesn't work if people know to run HQ frequently. We've tried it so, so many times. Leaving archives open against datasucker means your HQ/R&D ice is basically blank. It absolutely crushes people who focus on R&D because they don't know how to play against CI though.


But... it did work.
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spags
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That's why it's impressive. It partially works because people have no idea what to expect out of it, or how to play against it.

Thinking of running it at a Regional?
 
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Lluluien
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junitsu wrote:
hhooo wrote:
This stuff really doesn't work if people know to run HQ frequently. We've tried it so, so many times. Leaving archives open against datasucker means your HQ/R&D ice is basically blank. It absolutely crushes people who focus on R&D because they don't know how to play against CI though.


But... it did work.


I find it hard to believe that it works with 10 ICE myself, but c'mon. Won two tournaments of 25 and 32 people. Yeah, it did work.
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Arien Tyquaius
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hhooo wrote:
This stuff really doesn't work if people know to run HQ frequently. We've tried it so, so many times. Leaving archives open against datasucker means your HQ/R&D ice is basically blank. It absolutely crushes people who focus on R&D because they don't know how to play against CI though.


David and I were talking about it as well. Surprise factor all around.

But to the OP, great job on consecutive wins.

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John Fanjoy
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Wow, the thought of scoring Project Ares from hand with Psychographics for 7+...

Three Swiss rounds to cut to a top 8 out of 32 players seems a little insufficient at first glance, but I suppose from a certain point of view you're playing six "matches" in those three rounds, so maybe it does work out OK.
 
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Niles Stanley
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lluluien wrote:
junitsu wrote:
hhooo wrote:
This stuff really doesn't work if people know to run HQ frequently. We've tried it so, so many times. Leaving archives open against datasucker means your HQ/R&D ice is basically blank. It absolutely crushes people who focus on R&D because they don't know how to play against CI though.


But... it did work.


I find it hard to believe that it works with 10 ICE myself, but c'mon. Won two tournaments of 25 and 32 people. Yeah, it did work.


Yeah, it means people played very poorly against it. I could never get away with running a similar list in my meta, because even the weakest players have seen me try it in the past and know that you beat CI 9 times out of 10 just by running HQ every turn.

It's very curious that no one figured this out over the course of two tournaments. Did anyone run HQ, play sneakdoor, Nerve Agent, etc. against you? Or were you just very lucky on random accesses? I'm wondering what happened to make your results so wildly different with a very similar deck.
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Jesse Vandover
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Can you explain your rationale for Subliminal Messaging in this deck? When is the runner ever not going to run when you have little/very weak ICE?
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Dashakan wrote:
Can you explain your rationale for Subliminal Messaging in this deck? When is the runner ever not going to run when you have little/very weak ICE?


If they run to just stop them and bounce, thats fine. If i get them back, thats fine. It's a free credit for no clicks if you need, or its a card diluting your hand if you dont. I ran a version without it, and then with it, and they seemed to make a good impact on the performance.

You want to waste as little time as possible installing, and get the credits and pieces you need as a priority. So that 1 saved click and 1 extra credit will matter. I mean, if i could use beanstalks i would, but the influence is tied up.
 
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hhooo wrote:
Did anyone run HQ, play sneakdoor, Nerve Agent, etc. against you? Or were you just very lucky on random accesses?


Yes to all of those, also Keyhole, and Imp. Luck is involved every time someone access HQ or R&D, the odds are about the same as any standard deck (about 1:5).

hhooo wrote:
I'm wondering what happened to make your results so wildly different with a very similar deck.


Yea, one of the Universe's Great Mysteries. I can't possibly be a better deck builder, or player. My opponents can't possibly be as good as even your worst players. So... yea, mystery.
 
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Eighteen random accesses will win the runner the game with a 11 agenda 20 point spread. Now you can obviously slow people down with Closed account recursion via a Psychographics Vitruvius or by trashing lots of stuff with Ares, but how do you find psychographics or Closed Accounts reliably? Even having Midseason ready when it's applicable is questionable, since CI needs to have money in order to go digging, and needs even more money to Midseason without just losing from discarding most of their hand. Midseason without Psycho is just a huge money sink that potentially puts you into Siphon/Vamp range again (IE, 20 credits or less, where siphon can cause you to discard). I'm just curious how you're able to reliably pull these pieces together before the runner gets 18 accesses on a very weakly defended HQ/R&D.

When I see CI (which is rare), I never, ever come close to losing to it as Andromeda or Kate, because the principles are the same. Parasite/Datasuckers/Desperado etc. mean that you can easily get 2-4 accesses a turn from turn 4 or so onwards. What do you do against a traditional Fixed Strength breaker/Atman Rig? How much Ice do you play in a game? I often found myself playing 2-3 ice per central with CI and holding the rest in hand as blanks for accesses.

And let's not get into discussing who's a better player and all that. I top 8'ed at Worlds, and built 90% of a corp deck that got our 3 man team a t16, t8, and t4 finish. And we all know that most netrunner metas are dominated by a small group of good players. You're clearly a good player, and I'd like to have a constructive discussion on this deck with you. I realize I came off a little combative or dismissive in my first post, but I badly want CI to be a competitive deck amongst a field that knows how to play against it, but I have little confidence in that being possible currently.

Why no Eli 1.0? I understand that Bastion/WoS stops people cold if you hit a fracter with an Ares, but do you do this reliably enough to give up the best taxing ice in the game?

Have you thought about running a second Psychographics over the Jacksons? I think CI is one of the decks where he's least necessary, and spending money on Midseason without the Psycho in hand seems like it could easily be a game losing proposition.
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hhooo wrote:
...but how do you find psychographics or Closed Accounts reliably?


This is the actual heel of the deck. There is no super reliable way to guarantee getting the psycho. You could add in another of each, sans a midseason, but as midseason is the first piece of the chain, it needs to be there before they reach 5-6 points. I have had games where its just in the last 8ish cards. If it doesn't come, you just have to slow win thru biotic recursion, and do some praying.

hhooo wrote:
..What do you do against a traditional Fixed Strength breaker/Atman Rig? How much Ice do you play in a game? I often found myself playing 2-3 ice per central with CI and holding the rest in hand as blanks for accesses.


I do the same as anything would, try to block centrals and clear their viruses. I do think that this deck is a meta call, and how it is currently was a good meta call for this area. There are not a lot of katmans going around here. Parasite is popular, suckers are abound, but atmans not much. I also normally put 2 ice per central, with archives just getting what is needed. protect against inside job, and have an unrezzed answer ready for if they drop a breaker along with siphon or a multi-access option. I do not care if they access 1 card (to a certain point), i will leave the ice unrezzed so it cannot be hit by parasites or be known the type so they can find the breaker.

It's not great versus anything in particular, but I find this build to have a fair chance against everything. As fair as any other corp. I would say most corps are just playing ICE to tax/force breaker requirements, and this isn't really different in that respect, it's just using less total ice. But the amount of ICE that sits on a server is typically the same as with normal corp decks (upwards of 3), and with the clearances and JH draw, its not usually difficult to find ICE to do so. The most vulnerable point is the start draw, where statistically you have 1 ICE.

hhooo wrote:
Why no Eli 1.0? I understand that Bastion/WoS stops people cold if you hit a fracter with an Ares, but do you do this reliably enough to give up the best taxing ice in the game?


Short answer is yes. I tried Eli, Viper, thought on some others as well. They need to be stopped cold, I don't want anything porous, that could allow entry after Ares, and trace ICE are bad as they will get bad pub and can walk through them later as well. It is important that they must spend time to rebuild their suite and money.

hhooo wrote:
Have you thought about running a second Psychographics over the Jacksons?


Never ever. Jackson is 3 influence that will ALWAYS be in this deck the way I run it. I would love to include a 2nd psychographics, but there is nothing that I find sensible to make it happen.
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Thanks for the answers - no Katman in the meta seems like a much better environment for it to flourish. Our version has recently been running 2 Psycho/2 Midseason 1 Closed Accts, with a touch more Ice, and having the Ice be taxing rather than hard etr. Agendas were focusing on winning very quickly after Midseason, 3 Vitruvius, 3 Efficiency, 2 5/3s (wotan or PR), and a PSF. It was designed for a meta that is tending more towards Shaper than Crim, although the best matchup is Knight based decks, as 2 per sub on Eli/Viktor/Ichi adds up quickly. But standard Datasucker Andy has a tough time losing to it. We've got a couple ideas to get Psycho involved more often, but Jackson may be right in the spot. Biotic Labor is poor in our version though, and that may be the crux of the difference. Our backup plan wasn't consistent enough.

Here's to hoping that Fast Track can do some work to make this deck even better.
 
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Biotic has been severely less used in the psychographic CI version, and I have considered removing it, but I know as soon as i do, the entire deck hinges on midseason/psycho 100% and it loses its backup win ability, which I think is a bad idea for it. I am going to put a single PSF in, which will allow the biotics to create another win condition via the 6tap meat dmg turn.

Originally I just wanted to Project Ares someone and feel happy seeing their shock, turns out its pretty brutal and leads to wins.

We had another realization that because of the meta it actually fits in well. Snare is all over the place here, even tho Jinteki is light, making people have an aversion to multi-dig cards. People also have not many breakers in their decks, with many ways to fetch them, making Ares rather brutal as they are counting on their programs only being lost if they themselves take a calculated risk to lose one or make a mistake. Ares removes that control from them and puts them on their heels.
 
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