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Subject: Must demand tiles be used first to satisfy demands rss

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Gilberto Rivera
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The wording in the rules is a bit awkward in this section.
If you are able to satisfy a demand with either a demand tile or an accomplished Trajan tile, are you free to chose either or are demand tiles always consumed first if they are available?
In effect, can a Trajan tile "protect" a demand tile from being used?
After playing through the game, it seemed natural that Trajan tiles can be used this way, looking for confirmation.
 
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Jonathan Harrison
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You are free not to satisfy any demand, even if you could. And you are free to choose how to satisfy that demand, limited only by the extent of your power to satisfy it at all.
 
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Ori Avtalion
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HuginnGreiling wrote:
You are free not to satisfy any demand, even if you could. And you are free to choose how to satisfy that demand, limited only by the extent of your power to satisfy it at all.

Are you sure? Page 8 says "Important: If a player can meet a demand, they must do so."

And since Trajan demand tiles do not exhaust when used, it follows that Trajan demand tiles "pay" for the demands before demand tiles are consumed.
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Pete Goch
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HuginnGreiling wrote:
You are free not to satisfy any demand, even if you could. And you are free to choose how to satisfy that demand, limited only by the extent of your power to satisfy it at all.



Not true as it turns out. Take a look at the thread currently below this one.

You must satisfy as many demands as it is possible for you to satisfy.

That being said, of course you can use a Trajan tile for a given demand even if you have a forum tile for that demand. As long as you satisfy as many demands as you possibly can either way. If there were two demands for fire and you had only one Forum tile for fire and a Trajan tile for fire you'd be required to use them both.
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Jonathan Harrison
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SaltyHorse wrote:
HuginnGreiling wrote:
You are free not to satisfy any demand, even if you could. And you are free to choose how to satisfy that demand, limited only by the extent of your power to satisfy it at all.

Are you sure? Page 8 says "Important: If a player can meet a demand, they must do so."

You are right! Trust me to miss the text reading IMPORTANT.

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Nick Case
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HuginnGreiling wrote:
[-]You are free not to satisfy any demand, even if you could.


I'm afraid that's not correct. This point was kicked to death very recently and the publisher stepped in to give a definitive answer. In short, if you can satisfy a demand, you must. What's more you must satisfy as many as you possibly can.
 
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Jeff Thornsen
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The question in the OP is different. They are asking if you can choose to spend the smaller (turquoise) tile to meet the demand instead of using the completed Trajan tile.

I suspect that the OP has the rules wrong regarding these Trajan tiles.

Those Trajan tiles meet the demand every round and are not discarded/spent. As such, you will always use them to meet the demand.
 
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Gilberto Rivera
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Hmm I guess my own wording was ambiguous
My question was regarding the wording of the rules.

When I read the section on meeting demand, it seemed to me that it could be read in such a way that implied that if a player had the smaller turquoise demand tiles available, they must use those to meet demands first, and only if they couldn't, could they rely on the recurring effect of the Trajan tile. I am aware that demand Trajan tiles remain available every quarter once accomplished

To give a concrete example:
At the end of a quarter, the demand tiles are 1 bread, 1 fire, 1 helmet.
On my player board I have 1 bread, 1 fire, and 1 helmet tile as well as 1 helmet Trajan tile.
The question is, must I use my 3 tiles to meet the demands, or can I spend the fire and bread tiles and rely on the permanent Trajan tile to satisfy the helmet demand thereby "saving" the helmet tile?

Sounds like from Jonathan's revised reply the answer is yes, the tile can be saved.
 
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Pierre Beri
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TheOneTrueZeke wrote:
Not true as it turns out. Take a look at the thread currently below this one.
Basically, the summary of that thread is that you must use your Trajan demand tiles and normal (non-wild) Forum demand tiles first and, only then, must use wild Forum demand tiles if you still have unsatisfied demands.
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Jon Ben
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beri2 wrote:
TheOneTrueZeke wrote:
Not true as it turns out. Take a look at the thread currently below this one.
Basically, the summary of that thread is that you must use your Trajan demand tiles and normal (non-wild) Forum demand tiles first and, only then, must use wild Forum demand tiles if you still have unsatisfied demands.


Sorry for nit-picking but that bit isn't quite true. I think I said something to that effect at some point in that thread, but it isn't true. What's important is that you ultimately satisfy as many demands as possible. If you spend your non-wild forum tiles first and then spend your wild forum tiles you will always satisfy to your maximum ability, but you may have been able to do things differently and still reach this maximum.

The rule would have been clearer if they had used such a procedure. Since wilds can be spent on the senate tiles I don't think making this spending order does anything except enforce smart play. Unless I'm forgetting something you would always rather have a wild.
 
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Pierre Beri
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Yeah, so it is the same.
I mean, playing by that procedure ensures that 1) you satisfy to your maximum ability and 2) you play in the best possible manner (since you always want to keep a wild instead of a normal demand tile).

So just remembering "normal demand tiles first, wild demand tiles last if needed" is the easiest and best thing to do.
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