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Subject: Chameleon question rss

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The all-seeing, all-knowing, all-trollin' Mike Hutton
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Do you add the recruit and damage of the hero card underneath the Chameleon to the Chameleons battle value? I just don't understand how he works?!
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Erik Miller
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I have no idea but I just want to say that YOUR AVATAR ROCKS!!!! whistle

My copy's in the mail.....
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Rauli Kettunen
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Since it's a Fight effect, meaning Chameleon has already been beaten by the time it kicks in, adding the points to him doesn't make any difference. I read it as those points going to your Attack/Recruit pool for the turn.
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Knobbly Savage
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Dam the Man wrote:
Since it's a Fight effect, meaning Chameleon has already been beaten by the time it kicks in, adding the points to him doesn't make any difference. I read it as those points going to your Attack/Recruit pool for the turn.


Agreed, you basically act as if you had played the card under Chameleon.
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Nathaniel GOUSSET
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KnobblySavage wrote:
Dam the Man wrote:
Since it's a Fight effect, meaning Chameleon has already been beaten by the time it kicks in, adding the points to him doesn't make any difference. I read it as those points going to your Attack/Recruit pool for the turn.


Agreed, you basically act as if you had played the card under Chameleon.


Wich doesnt make a lot of sense thematically either... or does that mean he was supposed to have kidnapped the hero and you freed him ?
 
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Michael M.
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IKerensky wrote:
KnobblySavage wrote:
Dam the Man wrote:
Since it's a Fight effect, meaning Chameleon has already been beaten by the time it kicks in, adding the points to him doesn't make any difference. I read it as those points going to your Attack/Recruit pool for the turn.


Agreed, you basically act as if you had played the card under Chameleon.


Wich doesnt make a lot of sense thematically either... or does that mean he was supposed to have kidnapped the hero and you freed him ?


I think that's exactly the thematic point actually!
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The all-seeing, all-knowing, all-trollin' Mike Hutton
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It would make more sense that he would dupe the card underneaths stats.....still confusing and needs an explanation
 
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My personal thematic explanation is that Chameleon is imitating the hero underneath him, and when you beat him, that hero lends you a hand as thanks for dealing with the impostor.
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Chad B
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Qualizium wrote:
My personal thematic explanation is that Chameleon is imitating the hero underneath him, and when you beat him, that hero lends you a hand as thanks for dealing with the impostor.


That's how I took it, too. So actually in the case of our game last night his attack went down. I agree it is a little confusing because he has an attack of 6 (if I remember correctly) on the card instead of it being a *.

Also, how do you deal with the superpower effects? For example, the hero below him was a 3, +2 if following an Instinct (sorry, I don't remember which hero). Does that mean that if you attack him with an Instinct hero he would be a 5 instead of a 3 since the Instinct hero would have been played first?
 
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Dane Turner
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WhiteBoy wrote:
Qualizium wrote:
My personal thematic explanation is that Chameleon is imitating the hero underneath him, and when you beat him, that hero lends you a hand as thanks for dealing with the impostor.


That's how I took it, too. So actually in the case of our game last night his attack went down. I agree it is a little confusing because he has an attack of 6 (if I remember correctly) on the card instead of it being a *.

Also, how do you deal with the superpower effects? For example, the hero below him was a 3, +2 if following an Instinct (sorry, I don't remember which hero). Does that mean that if you attack him with an Instinct hero he would be a 5 instead of a 3 since the Instinct hero would have been played first?


If I'm understanding correctly, the way he works is you fight him for 6 Attack. Once you have defeated him for that cost you then look at the card beneath him in the HQ and add their Attack and Recruit to your pool. You also do any superpowers that they may have had as if you had played that hero. In the example, you are correct that if you played an Instinct it would trigger the power. The hero's color, however, would not affect further triggers that turn, as that is not added to your pools.
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Just to reiterate, Chameleon's attack stats don't change, he's always a 6 attack (unless affected by a scheme or such), what his Fight text means is that once you fight him you get the benefits of the card in the HQ spot underneath his city space, as if you had played that card from your hand, gaining its attack value, recruit value, and ability text for the turn. We don't have Devin Low's word for it (yet?) but this is the only interpretation that makes sense to me.
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Devin Low
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Hi Mike,

Thanks for your question, and welcome to Paint the Town Red! Rauli, Knobbly, Dane, and Qualizium are correct: Chameleon always has 6 Attack, and his text doesn't modify that. When you fight any Villain, after you spend enough Attack points to defeat them, you do their "Fight:" ability. In this case, Chameleon's "Fight:" ability is
Quote:
Fight: Copy the effects of the Hero in the HQ space under Chameleon, including its [RECRUIT] and [ATTACK].

So you get to use the Recruit points, Attack points, and text of the Hero that was under Chameleon.

Chameleonically yours,

Devin Low meeple
Designer, Legendary
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Moosey
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I used Storm to move Chameleon to the rooftops, where the rare Moon Knight card was sitting under. I had no tech to trigger that part. But do I get the bystandards from Chameleon's Moon Knight?

Moon Knight:
Whenever you defeat a Villain on the Rooftops this turn, rescue Bystanders equal to that Villin's printed [victory points].

Basically it's a question of when Fight effects trigger.

Base game rules for Fight, 3rd bullet (after defeat bullet):
If the Villain card has a "Fight" effect on it, do what it says prior to comparing Attack totals.

Are the rules a missprint? If I compare prior, it means the hero below Chameleon will help defeat Chameleon, meaning if that hero is 6 or more attack, it's a free kill, plus bonuses. So my best guess was to make fight effects happen after you defeat the Villain and put it in your victory pile.
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Knobbly Savage
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MooseyFate wrote:
I used Storm to move Chameleon to the rooftops, where the rare Moon Knight card was sitting under. I had no tech to trigger that part. But do I get the bystandards from Chameleon's Moon Knight?

Moon Knight:
Whenever you defeat a Villain on the Rooftops this turn, rescue Bystanders equal to that Villin's printed [victory points].

Basically it's a question of when Fight effects trigger.

Base game rules for Fight, 3rd bullet (after defeat bullet):
If the Villain card has a "Fight" effect on it, do what it says prior to comparing Attack totals.

Are the rules a missprint? If I compare prior, it means the hero below Chameleon will help defeat Chameleon, meaning if that hero is 6 or more attack, it's a free kill, plus bonuses. So my best guess was to make fight effects happen after you defeat the Villain and put it in your victory pile.


Yes, the rules are a misprint. from the FAQ:

FAQ wrote:
Timing of Resolution of Fight Effects Page 13 – Fight effects occur after defeating the enemies and
placing them in the Victory Pile, not before comparing Attack Totals as the rulebook states.
(http://boardgamegeek.com/article/10584472#10584472) – Devin Low


Consequently, as "Whenever"-effects only look in the future, not at what already happened this turn, you do not get Bystanders for defeating Chameleon.

Hope that helps
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Moosey
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It does, thanks.
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